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To: DiogenesLamp

If Lincoln wanted war (which I don’t personally believe, read his first inaugural address), Jeff Davis should have understood the overwhelming importance of the Yankees being seen to have fired the first shot.

But instead the Confederacy took it upon itself to fire that first shot. At 4:30 a.m. on April 12, 1861, Lt. Henry S. Farley, acting upon the command of Capt. George S. James, fired a single 10-inch mortar round from Fort Johnson against Fort Sumter. James had offered the first shot to Roger Pryor, a firebrand Virginia secessionist, who declined, saying, “I could not fire the first gun of the war.” After the war, Pryor moved to NYC and became the law partner of General Benjamin Butler!

FDR for certain wanted war, and the Japanese stupidly accommodated him.

Both historical episodes remind me of the famous Talleyrand quote “It was worse than a crime, it was a mistake”.

In my opinion, going to war with the USA was almost the only way for the Confederacy to lose its independence.


172 posted on 07/01/2023 3:00:33 PM PDT by devere
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To: devere
If Lincoln wanted war (which I don’t personally believe, read his first inaugural address),

Let me clarify this point. Lincoln did not want war, but he most certainly wanted it more than he wanted the South to escape. If he could not stop the South with persuasion, (Corwin Amendment) he had no qualms about stopping them with war.

Jeff Davis should have understood the overwhelming importance of the Yankees being seen to have fired the first shot.

I have studied this incident quite a lot, so I don't hold it against you to not know specific details that most people don't know.

The problem facing Beauregard is that his forces would be under the guns of both the fort and the warships at the same time. His men would have been caught in the crossfire between the two hostile groups.

Beauregard was not going to let that happen. To him, the military necessity dictated that he first neutralize the fort *BEFORE* the Warships managed to get into position to attack.

The confederates knew that the Powhatan was the command ship, and that none of the other ships would attack until Captain Mercer arrived to take charge of the forces.

Yes, the confederates knew what the ships orders were because they had spies and sympathizers all through the government.

They believed the warships were going to fire the first shot, and the sending of those warships was itself an act of war.

Both historical episodes remind me of the famous Talleyrand quote “It was worse than a crime, it was a mistake”.

They fell for a clever trap set by Lincoln. If you've studied Lincoln, you know he was a quite clever and manipulative fellow, (see how he won the nomination at the Chicago convention) and the sort of trick he pulled with the Powhatan is right in his wheel house. Even the New York Times said so shortly thereafter. They congratulated Lincoln on his clever ruse to get the Confederates to fire first.

In my opinion, going to war with the USA was almost the only way for the Confederacy to lose its independence.

You speak as if they had a choice. When the more powerful side stands to lose hundreds of millions of dollars by doing nothing, it is axiomatic that they will reach for the gun.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the behavior of Lt Porter in commanding the Powhatan leads me to believe Lincoln was going to get his war in Pensacola if he didn't manage to get it in Charleston.

Porter literally tried to attack the Confederate troops on shore the moment he arrived in Pensacola, and were it not for the deliberate efforts of Captain Meigs stopping him, (interposing his ship between the Powhatan and the forces he was positioning to attack) he *WOULD* have started the war there, and with absolutely no knowledge of the doings in Charleston.

He was under secret orders directly from Lincoln. What can we make of his efforts to attack the Confederates other than that Lincoln condoned/authorized it?

178 posted on 07/02/2023 9:13:16 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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