Posted on 06/21/2023 6:41:03 PM PDT by nickcarraway
A submersible carrying tourists to look at the remains of the Titanic went missing on Sunday, and the odds of anyone onboard surviving grow lower by the day. It’s also been reported that the CEO of OceanGate Expeditions, the company behind the excursion, is onboard. And the more information that comes out, the less surprising it is that we’ve ended up in this situation.
Metro reports that last year, when asked about the safety of the Titan submersible, Stockton Rush, OceanGate’s CEO, said, “You know, there’s a limit. At some point safety just is pure waste. I mean if you just want to be safe, don’t get out of bed. Don’t get in your car. Don’t do anything. At some point, you’re going to take some risk, and it really is a risk/reward question. I think I can do this just as safely by breaking the rules.”
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According to the report, OceanGate fired David Lochridge when he questioned how safe the Titan was and later sued him after he filed a whistleblower complaint with the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, claiming he violated the terms of his contract. Lochridge then countersued, claiming he was wrongfully terminated. In the suit, he said he pushed back against launching the Titan without doing “non-destructive testing to prove its integrity.”
“The paying passengers would not be aware, and would not be informed, of this experimental design, the lack of non-destructive testing of the hull, or that hazardous flammable materials were being used within the submersible,” Lochridge said in his suit.
From the CBS story:
The Titan relied on carbon fiber for a hull that would carry passengers as deep as 4,000 meters, a depth that Lochridge claimed in the court filing had never been reached in a carbon fiber-constructed sub. According to his claim, he learned the vessel was built to withstand a certified pressure of 1,300 meters, although OceanGate planned to take passengers to 4,000 meters. Titan relied on carbon fiber for a hull that would carry passengers as deep as 4,000 meters, a depth that Lochridge claimed in the court filing had never been reached in a carbon fiber-constructed sub. According to his claim, he learned the vessel was built to withstand a certified pressure of 1,300 meters, although OceanGate planned to take passengers to 4,000 meters.
He also said that even though the Titan was made out of carbon fiber, no carbon fiber sub had ever gone that deep before.
If these claims are true, they paint a pretty clear picture of a CEO who didn’t care about safety and was happy to risk other people’s lives to make a little money.
“Right. But one thing is consistent. Seems like the more money some folks have, the less common sense they end up with.”
I think that the more money you have the more your lack of common sense gets publicity.
I watched a lot of America’s Funniest Videos!
“I think that the more money you have the more your lack of common sense gets publicity.
I watched a lot of America’s Funniest Videos!”
True dat. Point made. America’s Funniest Videos just proves how many real “jackasses” there are out there...lol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jackass_episodes
The astronauts that were pioneers of space also had the promise that their families would be taken care of completely if they died in the commission of their duties.
“The astronauts that were pioneers of space also had the promise that their families would be taken care of completely if they died in the commission of their duties.”
Absolutely. And pioneering space is, IMO, a risk that is well worth the reward of multiple things, including medical advances.
The company is going to go out of business. Yep.
bkmk
1. Testing…. Common testing standards for a pressure vessel don't appear to have been used. Apparently, destructive testing was not performed to validate the carbon fiber pressure vessel's manufacturing technique versus the required external pressure nor the effect of pressure cycling on material fatigue over time. Instead, a novel ultrasonic technique was substituted to save costs.
So…. To save big $$$ and time, a corner was cut. This is why a conditional experimental certification was issued instead of a type license. Unknowns remained unknown.
2. I've read that the Titanic depth was about 1000-2000 feet deeper than the maximum operating depth certified by the experimental license. If this is correct, why wasn't the experimental operating license jerked?
In addition, there was a wink wink nod nod involved via the experimental license in that the sub was not carrying “passengers” on a for hire basis but “researchers” doing scientific work.
In a similar vein, I have read that the titanium endcap and ring with the viewing port was manufacturer certified to a much lower operating depth that was way shallower than the Titanic depth. Criminal negligence IMHO if correct.
3. The control systems seems sketchy from from what I've read. No reason to be sketchy for this. Controllers are off the shelf in rugged industrial gear that can be configured to have multiple backups. Cheapskate idiots…
I've rambled more than enough…. Simple opinions... Nothing more…
I very much agree with you. Trapped without air is the stuff of nightmares.
Rush is an Ivy League graduate, Princeton, who too often are arrogant know-it-alls who ignore the common sense suggestions of those they view as their lessers.
“is this the same guy that said he didn’t want any 50 year old white guys in his company?”
Yes it is, I guess it’s a coincidence this D-Bag CEO fired a middle aged white guy for bringing up safety concerns. Granted Lochridge is only 49, LOL
10 meters (33 ft) of water adds about one atmosphere. 4000/10 = 400 ATM. Almost 6000 PSI.
Decomposition might foul the air worse.
The guy you’re talking about is on the sub and is most likely dead already
Functional safety standards follow the principle of “eliminating _unreasonable_ risk”, not to reach “no risk”. So, on the one hand he is correct, at _some_ point you don’t gain anything with endless design improvements and testing. On the other hand, he’s used this as an excuse to not follow the processes functional safety standards provide because it’s expensive and time consuming - which is the problem.
Such processes would dictate that you have requirements and that all of those requirements have been tested. So, if the requirement is that “The submersible vehicle must maintain structural integrity at pressures equal to those at 4000m below sea level.” then there should have been a respective TEST(s) to validate that requirement.
Apparently, this wasn’t done, which makes him reckless. Now, this isn’t a ‘mass produced commercial vehicle’ - but I’d guess this still puts him in serious legal trouble.
Only if he gets out of the sub alive.
Billionaires don't always get to the "find out" part of the saying.
“””He had more than enough money to do this safely but in his hubris he still cut corners.”””
More people will probably reveal they ran from this project because of his psychology interfering with the careful process of competence, and engineering facts.
“The Titan relied on carbon fiber for a hull that would carry passengers as deep as 4,000 meters, a depth that Lochridge claimed in the court filing had never been reached in a carbon fiber-constructed sub.”
Seems it still hasn’t SUCCESSFULLY made that 4,000 meter dive yet.
Ya know what they say...try, try, try again...
I wonder if the Titans replacement will have experienced 50 year old white guys on the design team. Probably not.
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