Computer question, RAM vs. NVMe SSD

Me | 12/16/2022 | Paul R.

[Paul R.]

As a follow up to my question regarding my Dell 5490 laptop: If I exceed the present RAM capacity (8 GB), then the SSD page (swap) file comes into play. The present swap file is 1.25 GB, on the 256 GB NVMe "C" drive. Reads and writes to the SSD of course "wear" it gradually. I am guessing my best bet is to increase the RAM. But, how does that compare to putting in a bigger NVMe boot drive (which I plan to do anyway) and increasing the page file size?

[Paul R.]

Thanks (and to all the other posters too - too many to answer at any length individually.)

Checking on Amazon, I can get a 2nd 8 GB stick of matching RAM for $20, from a maker rated just as good as Crucial (and a LOT more ratings & reviews than Crucial has on Amazon for this stick, to my surprise.)

https://www.amazon.com/Timetec-PC4-19200-Unbuffered-Notebook-Computer/dp/B07FF92ND3?th=1#

Even faster RAM is available but I don’t know if this machine can really take advantage of it. Besides, at present this 5490 is overall quite a bit faster than my main desktop I’m using right now, and this desktop is plenty fast for anything I do except file transfers, which are limited by the HDD data drive and the USB 3.0 ports. (Yeah, it’s getting a bit long in the tooth. But, heck, I have an old DOS 6.0 machine still going out in my lab, for some specific acoustic testing using an old program named LMS...)

So... I’ll check on Scheduled Optimization (good point), leave the page file alone, and see how things go (monitor page file use under what is heavy use for me) with 16 GB of RAM. I’ll bet it’ll be fine. If not, the manual and Crucial say it will take 32 GB max. (A poster doubted that, but, I think he / she misread Crucial’s report.)

Plus (from the other discussion) I think I’m going to also order the 512 GB M.2 SATA drive to see if the machine will accept it as a 2nd (data) drive. Definitely the 5490 won’t accept a 2nd NVMe drive.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MSQMGLT/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_4?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

Noted also Re: Advanced System Settings and Performance, Visual Effects. IIRC, at least in Win 7 Pro (this old machine, the new Dell has Win 11 Pro), I can also engage or defeat individually items in a long list, like “shadow under mouse”, various fades, etc.). But I suppose a more noticeable effect is to go with “performance” (which kills all that “stuff” I think.

Thanks again!

[Openurmind]

Lol. I’m trying to figure out if you are being sarcastic, or you indeed understand Mint. I have found it amazing how it is pretty much plug and play and figures out the best possible use of resources all on it’s own in the background. Even with minimal Ram it is on top of it.

[smokingfrog]

If you can’t upgrade your ram, a gen4 mvne will be very fast & have a good amount of cache.

https://www.amazon.com/SK-hynix-Platinum-Internal-Compact/dp/B09QX6SL2Y?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

[rockrr]

I would highly recommend matched RAM or (even better) a single 16gig stick. You may get away with it but mis-matched RAM often leads to random performance issues.

[daniel1212]

8 GB i hardly enough if you do more than open a dozen tabs and some documents, and RAM is much faster than even NVME, so while RAM is relatively cheap that would be first to increase.

If you want to create a partition just for RAM and set it as a custom size (Windows key + Pause, hit Advanced>Performance>Advanced>Virtual memory). Wise system monitor is low resource and handy to tell you via a small moveable bar what % RAM etc. you are using.

But install the free Autoruns for Windows from https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/autoruns and run is as an Admin, and nuke whatever runs at start up that is not necessary.

More customization helps here, thank God. To be used for Good in God.

[CptnObvious]

Your welcome.

Faster Ram generally won't help unless you are using some old game program. You have only 2 memory slots in that 5490. You'll want the same model and size, so memory will be DUAL (best for that Quad Core).

Memory pressure is what causes the heavy Page File use, so more memory (DUAL) should definitely help. Since you didn't mention any Blue Screens of Death (BSOD), you haven't hit the limit of the Page File so increasing that shouldn't help.

I'm a performance freak, well aware of what these laptops and mini's to keep their CPUs from burning up. They power limit, thermally limit or both. On Intel, I love the free app THROTTLESTOP which shows PROCHOT in RED when the CPU is Thermally Limited, and Under the Limits button is whether the CPU is being power Limited; RED also. My Dell, thermally limits like crazy; Yanking down the CPU Clock Frequency. By Undervolting the CPU a bit, my Dell can go further before it thermally limits (no penalty). But when I do Video Encoding, it thermally limits all the time. So, I was forced to Limit the Clock Frequencies on the QUADs to prevent that.

Hopefully you won't have to do that, but the Laptops and Mini's were not intended to be production machines, but rather for games, Browsing and lite use. The Limiting is Silent (not logged to the OS that I know of) and you can see it Via the Task Manager, CPU button, SPEED.

If one of the cores is getting significantly hotter, maybe 10C hotter, then the CPU chip needs new thermal paste.

Also Clean the vents and make sure to use it on a hard Flat surface so the air flow goes underneath it as your hot NVME C: Drive needs it. I put a heat sink on it, which helped performance a lot. (Another silent drain on performance).

Yes, I would use the SATA M.2 SSD, for Data Base, heavier write operations and keep that off of C: as much as you can, extending the life of that precious NVME Drive. But if the Writes are extremely heavy, I would look at well cached fast internal HDD on SATA instead (if available).

I copy a LOT of videos between systems using a USB 3.0 PNY removeable SSD I got from Walmart for $40. I replaced the PNY with a much better SAMSUNG 2TB which I use for Total C: Backup as well with free Macrium Reflect. And can Restore all in 10 minutes and be working again or Restore to a LARGER NVME DRIVE.

And this may be my last tip. Windows likes a LARGE C: volume, so I made it about 1.8 TB on a 2TB SAMSUNG NVME and got even more performance.

Of course, performance depends on where your bottlenecks are. The Task Manager on Windows 11 can spot the more obvious ones: disk, CPU, Memory, Network. Finding the bottleneck(s) may help point in the right direction.

Hope that Helps,

CO.

[minnesota_bound]

What version of Windows are you using?
If Home then you are limited to 16gb. If Pro then the limit is 128gb or what your motherboard can accept.
Mine is Windows 10 pro now and the Gigabyte motherboard from 2015 allows up to 32gb of ram. I have a Samsung 2TB SSD. Desktop pc.
I still have the mechanical hard drives for backup. Any new pc I put together will have a smaller form factor as the size of the hard drives are now little circuit boards so the pc case will be much smaller. The prices are dropping to so you can lots of storage.
_________________________________

Get a bigger hard drive and more ram memory:
Dell says this depending on the model:
NOTE Depending on the configuration you order, you will see either a HDD, M.2 SATA, M.2 2280 SATA SSD or M.2 PCIe/NVMe SSD in your system.

M.2 2230 PCIe/NVMe SSD limit is 512gb
M.2 2280 PCIe x2 NVMe SSD limit is 1TB

Your computer supports a maximum of 32 GB of memory
https://www.dell.com/support/manuals/en-us/latitude-14-5490-laptop/lat_5490_om/hukommelse?guid=guid-21ab5c57-f7d6-4ff9-9c67-ef3b39fa3a48

Latitude 5490 system supports DDR4. However, it depends on the processor what type of DDR4 will work. Here are the memory specs which are supported : DDR4 2400 MHz Non ECC for 8th Gen Processors, DDR4 2133 MHz for 7th Gen Processors.
https://www.dell.com/community/Latitude/DDR4-ram-16GB-is-not-supporting-in-dell-Lattitude-5490/td-p/7370243

[Paul R.]

Win 11 Pro.

Pretty much "known" on the rest as far as what "should" work, although the discussion at that last link you provide is pretty bizarre. I've never had a problem putting any properly spec'd and matched RAM in any machine. Granted I always buy new RAM from known brand names, or use RAM from swaps of my own machines in which the RAM is known to be working properly.

It turns out 8 GB RAM sticks for this machine are cheaper than I expected, so, I'm going to put in 16 GB. That's 6 GB more than I have in this HP 6300 desktop I'm working from now, and I really have to have a lot going to noticeably bog down this old horse. Typically I'd never get close to that with the laptop.

Thanks.

[Paul R.]

I’d say you are about two levels (or 3?) above me in terms of what you need from your machine(s)...

That’s a lot of good info., though!

With regard to the RAM, do the two sticks really need to be from the same mfgr? Or just spec’d identically? (I’ve never had any problems with mixing (reputable) manufacturers.

I note that head sinks are sold for the NVMe SSD’s. There is a little “space” in the 5490 (the NVMe drive goes where some variations had a 2.5” SATA SSD), so heat sinking might be added, but, heat sink paste would probably ruin the label.

BSOD? Correct - I’ve not had any problems with actually running out of page file space, but, I’ve also not pushed the 5490 hard in that regard, to my knowledge. Mainly I’m a bit concerned that a fairly light workload leaves me only 3GB of RAM left. FWIW (System Info.):

OS Name Microsoft Windows 11 Pro

Version 10.0.22621 Build 22621

Other OS Description Not Available

OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation

System Name DESKTOP-7QSA5MJ

System Manufacturer Dell Inc.

System Model Latitude 5490

System Type x64-based PC

System SKU 0816

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8650U CPU @ 1.90GHz, 2112 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)

BIOS Version/Date Dell Inc. 1.16.3, 3/5/2021

SMBIOS Version 3.1

Embedded Controller Version 255.255

BIOS Mode UEFI

BaseBoard Manufacturer Dell Inc.

BaseBoard Product 0FDHF4

BaseBoard Version A00

Platform Role Mobile

Secure Boot State On

PCR7 Configuration Elevation Required to View

Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS

System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32

Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1

Locale United States

Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = “10.0.22621.819”

User Name DESKTOP-7QSA5MJ\User

Time Zone Central Standard Time

Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 8.00 GB

Total Physical Memory 7.86 GB

Available Physical Memory 3.26 GB

Total Virtual Memory 9.11 GB

Available Virtual Memory 4.15 GB

Page File Space 1.25 GB

Page File C:\pagefile.sys

Kernel DMA Protection Off

Virtualization-based security Not enabled

Windows Defender Application Control policy Enforced

Windows Defender Application Control user mode policy Off

Device Encryption Support Elevation Required to View

Hyper-V - VM Monitor Mode Extensions Yes

Hyper-V - Second Level Address Translation Extensions Yes

Hyper-V - Virtualization Enabled in Firmware Yes

Hyper-V - Data Execution Protection Yes

[Intar]

Swap is extremely slow compared to RAM - even on a SSD/NVMe - and can cause a noticeable performance drop when in use. Whenever possible, it’s best to have enough RAM installed to reduce Swapping whenever possible. Keep in mind that Windows will use swap even when there is more than enough RAM available, but it’s barely noticeable in that case. If you can still get a memory module that is larger than your current one (or add a second - very rare option on most Dell laptops) then I recommend you do so.

[CptnObvious]

With regard to the RAM, do the two sticks really need to be from the same mfgr? Or just spec’d identically? (I’ve never had any problems with mixing (reputable) manufacturers.

I've gotten machines to run with different mfgrs and still got Dual. But some say it is not reliable enough. To me it is a question of how critical this is to your business. The more critical the less factors you want that can go wrong.

You could do a heavy memory test with windows. Some have run these for hours to make sure the memory is solid.

If you were overclocking RAM, I definitely would say the same mfgr (for heavy games, heavy ram usage). Most overclockers don't use laptops or minis as it tends to increase Temperature and Power Throttling.

[CptnObvious]

Let me tell you a story about Windows 11 Pro with 32GB Ram. I was encoding an HD video from Blu-ray disc. About 12 minutes in, I stopped the encode because I missed a setting that I really wanted. I started the encode again and for 12 minutes, the Blu-ray reader showed no activity. After that it started flashing.

And I've seen Windows 11 Pro do other funny things when copying a file a couple of times.

So Windows 11 pro is doing something when it has lots of memory. You might be surprised.

Also, see my prior post.

[Paul R.]

Noted, although I’m pretty sure I won’t be overclocking. But... I ran CPU-Z and from there did a search on Amazon for the Hynix RAM board, and by golly it showed up for $2 less than the Timetec board I’d been looking at...! (WHY I didn’t find the Hynix board in my earlier search I dunno, but, Amazon’s search by lowest price has been flaky for me many times.)

All this got me to wondering about the possibility of a NVMe boot drive in this old HP 6300 SFF, and I stumbled into the below:

https://www.tachytelic.net/2022/01/hp-compaq-8300-nvme/

Now, THAT is really getting in to it! Pretty much beyond my level...

I suspect that for my next (primary) desktop I should “simply” look into a refurbed SFF business class machine with a motherboard already set up for (or the machine already including) a NVMe boot drive. With Win 11 Pro. I’m thinking 8th - 10th gen i5(?) processor. I really don’t need top end capability, and the ‘ol IT budget is pretty tight, esp. after this little adventure...

[Paul R.]

The Dell 5490 has 2 RAM slots - see my post just above. Thx.

[Paul R.]

Ping.

[Paul R.]

Ok, today I added the matching 8 GB RAM card. “This PC / Properties” reports it’s there, and Taskbar shows the machine at 19% RAM usage once she’s calmed down after a fresh cold boot, with no apps running. (I did pare down the startup stuff a bit.) I’ve not yet cloned the C drive over to the 512 GB M.2 SATA drive that I added in the WWAN slot — I might get to that next weekend. (The idea is to then swap in a 512 GB M.2 NVMe in the main drive slot, and clone the SATA drive back to it. That way I end up with a 512 GB NVMe boot & programs drive, and a 512 GB SATA data / downloads drive that also has a copy of the OS and critical apps on it, PLUS the original 256 GB NVMe drive is available to possibly put in my Lenovo netbook, or turn into a super-fast USB drive.) :-)

[ It is not for sure that I can boot off the SATA drive, as the BIOS may not be set up for that. However, that is not a deal breaker! ]

I also tested the video output from the Latitude’s HDMI port on a 43” 4k TV: Windows reports full 4k resolution, and word processor fine text & spreadsheets looks great, as do 4k vids off You Tube. Granted I have no good 4k MOVIES to watch, but, what the heck...

This has worked out well. For a bit over $250 (B4 tax) I have a faster laptop that I’ll ever tax, drive reliability should be high, there’s likely more drive capacity than I’ll ever use, an intro to Win 11 Pro, business class build, an OEM dock (with an extra power supply, so I ended up with the usual 65 watt supply and TWO 130 watt supplies, the nicest (IMO) laptop keyboard I’ve used yet (and nicely backlit, too), lots of flexibility, and I think(!) I can even charge the laptop from my USB-C 100 watt-hour “power bank”. The display is a bit dull, but plenty good for my uses, and there’s always that 4k / UHD video output. So far, everything is working smoothly and as an added plus I’ll have a spare 256 GB NVMe drive as noted above.

[Paul R.]

**I’m not 100% sure on the charging via USB-C: I tried this evening with a power bank with a USB-C output, but, it does not seem to charge the laptop, or at least not when the laptop still has a good partial charge itself.**