Posted on 10/22/2022 4:35:57 AM PDT by FLT-bird
The data says millennials don't lack work ethic, but they'll never be able to afford what other generations take for granted. The popular millennial copypasta goes something like this:
First experience with serious job hunting comes on the heels of the 2008 financial crisis Can't take advantage of correction in home prices because too young to have made any money, and wage growth stagnates anyway Homes rocket to new highs, no chance of catching up now by just working a 9-5 like your parents Late 20s/early 30s, try investing as it's your last chance to make it Get obliterated again by a global pandemic and an actual war in Europe Hold the course, keep buying, you're smarter than that! Get obliterated again by massive inflation which leads to a gigantic stock market dump wiping out years of gains in weeks with no end in sight Oh yeah, and you were dumb enough to buy crypto on top of it all But it's not just a meme. Millennials (those born between 1980 and the mid-90s) earn less than their parents did at similar points in their lives – less even than pensioners – and their outlook is bleak.
A quarter of a century ago, young adults earned more than national averages – allowing them to have a fulfilling career, buy a house, and start a family – all by the age of 30. Now, in at least seven countries, this same age group is earning at least 20% below that of all other age demographics.
"It is likely to be the first time in industrialized history, save for periods of war or natural disaster, that the incomes of young adults have fallen so far when compared with the rest of society," reports The Guardian.
And it's not just isolated to the United States, this rings true across the globe. The UK, Canada, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, and Australia – all major economies, major hubs of hungry, talented, creative young adults who simply do not have the means to live their best lives.
It's not a coincidence that governments and NGOs have started to push for something called tiny house living, which normalizes living in small boxes.
Unison's 2019 Affordability Report calculated how long it would take a potential homebuyer to save for a 20% down payment across the country's top metros, and found that it would take 14 years under absolute ideal conditions.
Pulling data from the LIS: Cross-National Data Center, the largest database of international income levels worldwide, The Guardian found that not only are millennials poorer than retired folks, prosperity has plummeted drastically for all millennials across the board, worldwide, and prospects for a recovery look bleak.
This data provides concrete statistical opposition to the oft-heard misplaced accusation that the millennial generation is lazy, lacking work ethic, and expecting rewards in exchange for zero hard work.
No, we are not “hitting our milestones” later because we are entitled children with sloth tendencies, we are hitting them later (or not at all) because they are essentially impossible to hit, financially speaking. We are a cursed generation.
How are we expected to save up for a house when 75-year-olds make more money than us? When with a combined salary of $100K, a couple in their 20’s cannot afford to have careers, kids, and a house? Most importantly, how are we expected to live up to the American Dream when we simply can’t afford it any longer?
The fact that this is not simply an American issue should speak volumes. It is far easier (albeit nonsensical) to blame the "character" of an entire generation than consider the fact that previous gens have totally fucked us over.
For the first time in recorded history, the younger are making less money than the oldest. If we don't do something drastic about it, we could, also for the first time in recorded history, see an age-based revolution.
I think it is more an expression of how liberals an Millennials think, i.e. “its not my fault, it is someone elses”
But then the Boomers unionized the factories, slow-walked the production, would strike for insane wages, negotiate for unsustainable retirement, and then proceed to purchase cheaper goods manufactured overseas. I think the latest generation to enter the labor force would LOVE to have stable production work and would support domestic manufacturing with patronage. "Patronizing" seems to be concept with a lot of currency, these days.
It seems more like you’re hypersensitive to any perceived slight of the Boomers....even though I was disagreeing with the Millenials’ whining about Boomers. That was the whole point of the thread, yet you just HAD to argue. OK. Let’s go.
Yes houses are bigger than they used to be....for everybody. The average house price in 1965/1970/1975 was a significantly smaller multiple of the average annual income in those years than it is now. Much lower in fact. Houses are more expensive in relative terms now than they were then - much more expensive.
College tuition
“In 1980, the price to attend a four-year college full-time was $10,231 annually—including tuition, fees, room and board, and adjusted for inflation—according to the National Center for Education Statistics. By 2019-20, the total price increased to $28,775. That’s a 180% increase.”
Its not even close. Tuition is vastly more expensive in real terms now than it was 40 years ago.
Here are the average annual returns by year for 40 years.
1980 31.74%
1981 -4.70%
1982 20.42%
1983 22.34%
1984 6.15%
1985 31.24%
1986 18.49%
1987 5.81%
1988 16.54%
1989 31.48%
1990 -3.06%
1991 30.23%
1992 7.49%
1993 9.97%
1994 1.33%
1995 37.20%
1996 22.68%
1997 33.10%
1998 28.34%
1999 20.89%
2000 -9.03%
2001 -11.85%
2002 -21.97%
2003 28.36%
2004 10.74%
2005 4.83%
2006 15.61%
2007 5.48%
2008 -36.55%
2009 25.94%
2010 14.82%
2011 2.10%
2012 15.89%
2013 32.15%
2014 13.52%
2015 1.38%
2016 11.77%
2017 21.61%
2018 -4.23%
2019 31.21%
2020 18.02%
2021 28.47%
The returns were better from 1980-2000 than post 2000.
You say Boomer kids had jobs. Do you think that was the only generation that had jobs as kids? I had jobs as a kid. That was pretty normal. A lot still do.
Boomers went off to war in Vietnam, and suffered greatly. But, they were the ones who completely trusted .gov on Iraq, Afghanistan and .gov in general. Why didn't ‘they’ hold the line in sending us off to War, or at least getting a Declaration of War. Patriot Act, and the police state infrastructure were blessed by such trust.
Gen x y, z etc get to face the world that has been crafted against them. After ww2, the US had the world, the apex of all. But, worms inside, created bad trade deals, increased immigration, increased debt, bank bailouts, no child left behind, amnesties for illegals, not enforcing immigration law, sold out to communist china, nafta, wto, etc. The list is legion.
is living 3-5 singles or couples together still a thing to save money till you can peal off???
Things don’t really change much for the individual regardless of when he was born.
People who want to, will, and those who get distracted won’t.
Dunno. I suppose it shows an independent spirit, a person in control of their own life.
It also give employers a reason to pay them less.
Simply put—and there is a lot to what you say.
Those numbers don’t mean anything and I already told you the reasons why.
And as to teenage workforce participation rate, here ya go:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300012
The forced removal of a President by the FBI?
The Forever Wars without a victory?
Left a mark.
Those numbers confirm everything I’ve said. Houses and tuition are more expensive in relative terms than they used to be and returns in the market are lower than the were from 1980-2000.
Teenagers may not be working as much now - that doesn’t prove that that stopped with the Boomer generation. It was the norm for teenagers to work when I was growing up too.
But they are not buying the same thing.
Just stick to the basics and you’re in line with inflation.
And it is your fellow Americans paying for most useless college “educations” today anyway.
“”But then the Boomers unionized the factories””
Private sector unions died under the boomers.
They’re buying the normal house for the time. The average house then and the average wage then vs the average house now and the average wage now. That house is more expensive now in relative terms....it takes more years of the average wage to buy it now than it took then.
Education is more expensive - considerably more expensive - adjusted for inflation. Tuition grew way faster than inflation for many years.
Economic conditions for someone starting out today have deteriorated considerably from conditions in the late 60s through the 80s.
The average house has grown in size, amenities and finish because the average buyer is more affluent.
But if you want to whine about an earlier generation paying less to get into a house at all it only makes sense to compare the scale and type of house that was being bought then.
For one last time, that is still accessible for those willing to lead the life and have the lifestyle that first-time purchasers made and had then.
Which really means you haven’t any kind of a rationale basis for your whining.
Ansd the same, once again, goes for college. Yes, the prices have risen faster, but a) lots of other goodies are tossed in, b) the basics can still be bought affordably if you’re willing to settle for that, and c) someone else is footing most of the bill for today’s college goers anyway.
We are comparing the average house then and the average wage then to the average house now and the average wage now. Like for Like. That house is a lot more expensive now than it was then.
Nobody is “whining” expect perhaps you who does not seem to want to understand that houses and tuition are more expensive now while investment returns have not been as good as they were then.
It is not as accessible now as it was then. It is still possible to attain if one works hard, is careful with their money, etc but its not as easy.
Which means your attempts to claim that the plain numbers don’t mean what they mean are laughable. Pretty much everybody who has done the comparison and who is capable of looking at the facts objectively agrees it is tougher now than it was then.
The same is true of obtaining a college degree or pursuing other education. It is more expensive now. I don’t disagree that a lot of stupid useless crap like a bazillion more highly paid administrators for things like “diversity” are what have driven those costs up but the fact remains it is more expensive to obtain now.,
That more older Americans can afford bigger and more luxurious houses does nothing for your woe-is-me complaint about younger people not being able to afford a home of their own. That is why the relatively more expensive, more luxurious houses of the wealthy are not suitable for the comparison you are trying to make.
But somehow that seems to be beyond you. As are the specifics around relatively more expensive average tuitions.
And your investment returns complaint is likewise ridiculous. I already sent you the stats on that too. But you are apparently impervious to logic, data and argument.
We are not comparing just older Americans. We are comparing the average house and the average salary then vs the average house and the average salary now.
Houses are bigger and have more amenities now? People make more now. The point is that a house is more expensive in real terms now than a house was 40-50 years ago. Its not even disputable. So you can go ahead and drop any arguments about “the wealthy”. There were wealthy people back then too. As a multiple of salary, houses are much more expensive now than they were then. That seems to be beyond you. Or more like you take it as some kind of grand insult toward the Boomer generation to admit the blindingly obvious - ie that houses and education were cheaper and equities had a better rate of return.
Your lame attempts at denying the blindingly obvious are ridiculous. Its hilarious that you accuse me of being impervious to logic and facts when its plainly you that is guilty of that. Go ahead and look up the affordability of houses then vs now, the affordability of education then vs now. The numbers will all tell you what I’ve told you.
Here’s the first article that popped up:
“When most baby boomers turned 30 around 1985, the average single-family home cost $82,800. But today, millennials’ dollars don’t stretch nearly as far. The sense that homeownership is no longer within reach isn’t imagined, as the average millennial who turned 30 in 2019 would have spent $313,000 on a typical home — a cost that far outpaces inflation since 1985, when the average baby boomer turned 30.”
Did you notice they did not talk about homes of the wealthy? Did you notice they talked about the typical/average single family home in both instances?
read on:
“We found that home prices have rapidly increased over the last five decades, eclipsing the inflation rate by 150% since 1970. In fact, if home prices grew at the same rate as inflation since 1970, the median home price today would be just $177,788 – rather than $408,100.
Additionally, the median American household’s income has just slightly kept ahead of inflation over the last 40 years, leaving many wondering what will happen this year as the inflation rate continues to climb rapidly.”
Get it yet? MORE EXPENSIVE NOW. CHEAPER THEN.
More:
“In fact, home prices alone have increased 1,608% since early 1970, while inflation has increased just 644% in comparison. In other words, Americans have seen a steep decline in their purchasing power across the last five decades, especially when it comes to homeownership:
🛍 $20,000 in assorted goods in 1970 would cost you $148,800 today.
🏠 But a $20,000 house in 1970 would cost you $341,600 today.”
“Millennials Face 31% Higher Home-Price-to-Income Ratio Than Boomers Did in Their 30s”
“The average boomer turned 30 in 1985 when the median sale price of a home was just $82,800 and the median household income was $23,620 – that’s a 3.5 home-price-to-income ratio. In other words, homes cost 3.5x what the average American earned in 1985.
To afford a home with the suggested 2.6 ratio, a boomer turning 30 in 1985 would have needed a household income of $31,850, 35% higher than the median household income at the time.”
“For millennials, who, on average, reached their 30s around 2019, that ratio is significantly higher. The median sale price of a home in 2019 was $313,000, while the median household income was $68,700 – a 4.6 ratio. To afford a home at the suggested 2.6 ratio, the average millennial would need a household income of $120,400, a 75% higher salary than the actual median.
But millennials aren’t just combatting inflated housing prices – they also carry more added expenses such as education costs. In fact, after adjusting for inflation, college tuition costs grew 52% between when baby boomers and millennials began attending universities and have spiked an alarming 143% in total since 1963.”
LOL! Literally the first article that popped up.
https://anytimeestimate.com/research/housing-prices-vs-inflation/
Using generational names like Boomers, Millennials,X, Y, Z; or whatever they come up with is divisive .
And another way to divide us and make us hate each other.
In addition, we all have had it tough.
In the 60’s was the killings of JFK, RFK, King, protests constantly with bombings across the US and of course Vietnam .
Very real threat of being nuked.
The 70’s featured economic destruction in steel and coal country. And disco.
The 80’s had a terrible farm crisis and rural America suffered greatly .
Terrible inflation and high interest rates .
The stock market was literally minutes from a 1929 crash in October 1987.
The 90’s had its issues as did the 2,000’s .
Anyone saying the “boomers” (as if one generation had the exact same experience ) had it easy is massively uninformed and mistaken .
Each generation has pluses and minuses.
Yes college costs more, but many high schools let you get at least a years worth of credits , boomers didn’t have that .
The college system needs to be ruthlessly rebuilt.
Tear down all the football stadiums and fire all tenured professors
Have kids stay at home and eotj and tss as me college classes online .
Drive 80% of the costs out,
Get rid of the stupid gender study classes.
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