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To: MalPearce

No, you just refuse to accept facts that don’t fit your narrative.


77 posted on 05/22/2022 4:45:23 PM PDT by JoSixChip (2020: The year of unreported truths; 2021: My main take away from this year? Trust no one.)
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To: weasel

The definition of a fact: Both sides acknowledge it.


83 posted on 05/22/2022 4:51:19 PM PDT by Kevmo (Give back Ukes their Nukes https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4044080/posts)
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To: JoSixChip

I refuse to accept pro Russian narratives that are easily debunked.

I also refuse to accept pro Ukrainian narratives that are easily debunked.

Where both sides can evidence their claims, i accept them.

There was a near-genocidal civil war in Ukraine. It had pro-Russian separatists, bussed-in Ruscists and professional nazi private contractors on one side. On the other side there were Ukrainian nationalists and neonazis. That civil war was at its peak between between 2014 and 2016. This is agreed fact. Because both the DPR and the UN confirm these facts. And Wagner has admitted it was involved. And Azov admits it was involved.

Only Russia denies it had any hand in that stage of the conflict.

There was no genocide from January 2019 to 2022. DPR casualty statistics are higher than the UN’s but even they acknowledge it wasn’t on a scale that anyone can seriously claim amounted to genocide.

When Putinistas say that the invasion was provoked by genocide, they could only be right if Russia waited until three years after the genocide ended before sending the boots in. I think Russian military intelligence and logistics planning is sub-optima, but even that’s a hell of a stretch. It doesn’t take three years to launch a rescue operation.

If you REALLY think 14000 dead in 8 years (of which 9000 at least were combatants on both sides) with 75 civilians in the final three years of combat qualifies as a one-sided genocide rather than a civil war, then sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

If what happened in Donbas between 2014 and 2016 was a genocide then so is what’s happening in 2022. But on a far bigger scale.

Russia openly admits to removing over 100,000 civilians to internment camps, deploying forced adoption on Ukrainian children, and using torture when interrogating civilians.

With conservative estimates of over 60,000 Ukrainian fighters, over 20,000 Russian fighters, and easily over 10,000 civilians killed in Mariupol and Bucha before counting the dead anywhere else, Russia is manifestly guilty of creating a genocide that has killed 8 to 9 times as many people in three months as were killed in the entirety of the 8 year conflict.

For every one person killed in 8 years of civil war (combatants and noncombatants on both sides combined), the Special Military Operation has killed 72. (9x8).

If the small side of that ratio is genocide, why not the bigger side?


95 posted on 05/22/2022 5:55:01 PM PDT by MalPearce
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