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To: Kevmo

There are sources everywhere. If you are saying the that the US did not guarantee Russia that NATO would not expand one inch toward the Russian boarder. You prove what I thought all along, you are a lying POS and not worth my time.


46 posted on 05/22/2022 2:59:33 PM PDT by JoSixChip (2020: The year of unreported truths; 2021: My main take away from this year? Trust no one.)
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To: troll
There are sources everywhere. If you are saying the that the US did not guarantee Russia that NATO would not expand one inch toward the Russian boarder. You prove what I thought all along, you are a lying POS and not worth my time.
***Then it be so so simple for you to produce that guarantee, but you have never done so. Instead you retreat into insults and trolling.
47 posted on 05/22/2022 3:05:55 PM PDT by Kevmo (Give back Ukes their Nukes https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4044080/posts)
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To: JoSixChip
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

Western leaders never pledged not to enlarge NATO, a point that several analysts have demonstrated. Mark Kramer explored the question in detail in a 2009 article in The Washington Quarterly. He drew on declassified American, German and Soviet records to make his case and noted that, in discussions on German reunification in the two-plus-four format (the two Germanys plus the United States, Soviet Union, Britain and France), the Soviets never raised the question of NATO enlargement other than how it might apply in the former German Democratic Republic (GDR).

Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.” To be sure, the former Soviet president criticized NATO enlargement and called it a violation of the spirit of the assurances given Moscow in 1990, but he made clear there was no promise regarding broader enlargement.

Do you have any more lies to spew?

48 posted on 05/22/2022 3:05:55 PM PDT by Brellium (This post brought to you by St. Javelin, the worlds leading distributer of T72 parts)
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To: JoSixChip

Gorbachev himself clarified this. There was no such commitment sought by the USSR, and the American assurances pertained to East Germany specifically.

Reasons:

1. Assurances were given under the assumption that West and East East Germany might reunify but the Iron Curtain would remain intact. Russia’s orbit would still include the Baltics, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Belarus and Ukraine.

2. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the Iron Curtain collapsed and Russia’s border moved east, to the Belorussian and Ukrainian eastern borders. Yeltsin’s presidency ended the relevance of the American pledge.

Putin is open about how he feels the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest catastrophe in his lifetime and he wants to roll the clock back. Once you accept that, all other things make sense.

Why does he think the East Germany agreement is relevant to anything? Simple. He thinks the Iron Curtain should never have fallen, therefore it offended him the very first time NATO was approached by a Warsaw Pact country.

There’s nothing you can do to mollify Putin on that score. He’s totally irrational. He’s living in an alternative reality where the West stole all his Warsaw Pact toys and the UN made a horrible mistake recognising those countries as independent.

This is how irrational he us: all the Soviet Socialist Republics (including Russia and Ukraine) were granted equal recognition at the UN as independent nation states. But the same applies to the Commonwealth of Independent States. If you temind Putin of this inconvenient fact, you will be responsible for breaking the nearest seventh storey window.

Putin was rational in many respects but his outrage at the loss of influence over the Warsaw Pact region is compounded by him being KGB to the core. He’s never let it go. And now he’s gone “full Tonto” with his mortality exposed, he’s desperate to get into the history books by undoing a 30 year old mistake... Gorbachev and Yeltsin allowing the release of Eastern Europe from the tyranny of the USSR.


66 posted on 05/22/2022 4:16:46 PM PDT by MalPearce
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