"Can you cite counter-examples? I.e., people who devoutly believed and prayed and yet were not cured? I would expect that there are quite a few such cases."
Certainly, so what kind of argument against the supernatural is that? Somewhere it seems that you read my response as claiming that all such seeking results in a miracle, or that it must, but in which case you are arguing against someone other than the God of the Bible.
Perhaps you want to argue that a uniquely omniscient and omnipotent being, who sees all the effects of even the time it took you to eat today, for this life and for eternity, and can make all things work out for that which is good, just as well as merciful and gracious, must prevent or counteract all the direct and indirect negative effects of our disobedience and misuse of what He gave us? Just what is your argument?
"Further, can you cite examples of people belonging to other confessions (Buddhist, Hindu, etc.) who prayed to their deity and were miraculously healed? Again: I would expect that there are quite a few such cases. What does that tell us?"
It tells you just what I argued against, that there is a supernatural realm, as Scripture states (Moses himself faced some real professional competition, yet overcame them), yet testimony to supernatural effects in heart and in life abound far more in scope and dept among those of Christian faith than any other, from the vast number of hymns to documented accounts. Once one discards the atheistic faith-fantasy that all such can be naturally explained (not just that such could occur via natural forces, which God often used, but all that must occur for such events) then they can deal with who is the ultimate source of the universe and powers that be.
The typical atheistic argument that you left out was that fabrications abound in claims of the supernatural, which is certainly true, as well as that (the few) controlled experiments failed to conclusively prove the supernatural, yet such are based upon a faulty premise, as far more factors are involved in life. Christ Himself did not operate in a controlled laboratory type setting. Yet every effect has a cause, and examination of such does attest to both fraud, imagination as well as what cannot be explained by natural means. However, the lost are willing to believe that an infinitely vast, irreducibly complex yet ordered universe and all that is in it came to be by unguided natural means, and for the hardened atheist nothing can be allowed to disabuse them of their faith in nature, chance and time, like Dawkins, who basically admitted nothing could be allowed to change his desired anti-theist position,
Perhaps you want to argue that a uniquely omniscient and omnipotent being, who sees all the effects of even the time it took you to eat today, for this life and for eternity, and can make all things work out for that which is good, just as well as merciful and gracious, must prevent or counteract all the direct and indirect negative effects of our disobedience and misuse of what He gave us? Just what is your argument?
I have, as yet, advanced no argument at all, either for or against the existence of "the supernatural."
(Actually, I had already gotten the impression that we weren't discussing merely "the supernatural" - which might conceivably encompass a very wide field of phenomenon, even possibly independent of the existence of a Supreme Deity - incl. but not limited to: poltergeists, E.S.P., etc. Rather, I had thought that we had already narrowed the discussion down to the divinity of Jesus Christ.)
Rather, I am still attempting to understand your position.
However, it is still unclear to me whether you believe in a Christian God (and all that that entails: omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience, omnibenevolence), especially as that relates to the issue of Sin.
Apparently (if I understood your words above), when devout persons pray fervently for the healing of, say, a terminally ill 2-year-old, to no avail, this should be attributed to the "direct and indirect negative effects of our disobedience and misuse of what He gave us?"
Am I correct in assuming that, by "disobedience/misuse," you are referring to sinful behavior? I.e., to Sin? For some reason, you refrained from employing that word, so I am asking you know to be more explicit.
Are you THUS saying that, when intercessory prayers fail and miracles are not granted to alleviate the suffering of, say, a terminally ill 2-year-old, this is best explained as the "direct/indirect negative effect" of Sin?
Just a question!
SECONDLY:
It [people belonging to other confessions (Buddhist, Hindu, etc.) praying to their deity and being miraculously healed] tells you just what I argued against, that there is a supernatural realm, as Scripture states (Moses himself faced some real professional competition, yet overcame them)
What?! Did you argue AGAINST a supernatural realm? Now I'm confused!
In any event: You are being vague. Are you stating that such "miracles" (prayed for by non-Christians) are the work of "Dark Forces?" Again: For some reason, you refrained from exactly stating what you meant, so I am asking you know to be more explicit. Are you, in fact, referring to "demonic powers" or such?
Just another question!
Regards,