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To: The MAGA-Deplorian

Something a lot of people leave out of all this - the actual Ukrainians. Its THEY that don’t want Russia. And if the Ukraine is putting up a fight, its the Ukes that are doing it.

The model prevalent here is that its all just some bad guys doing X. These things aren’t about or by some few villains, its really about peoples, clashing with other millions of peoples. Its hard to picture this model of mass conflict, but that’s much closer to the truth than the personalized hatreds so normal in political argument.

In a way I think I understand the Ukes pretty well - I am a Basque by origin, my father and grandfather and grandmother were Basque nationalists, all working for independence from Spain for over a century. And the Ukes have a vastly greater beef vs Russia than the Basques had vs Spain.

These are real people, all existing and thinking and doing things irrespective of US political-social conflicts.


45 posted on 03/01/2022 8:43:33 PM PST by buwaya
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To: buwaya

I compare Ukrainians and Russians to Irish and English.

Most speak the same language, relatively few speak Gaelic, as relatively few speak Ukrainian.

Ukraine had the Holomodor and Ireland had the Potato Famine.


48 posted on 03/01/2022 8:45:43 PM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: buwaya

I understand they don’t want to be under Russian rules, but at the same time, I can’t envision them being under corrupt leadership either. I personally don’t think Russia wants the Ukraine. If they did, they wouldn’t be going out of their way to avoid civilian casualties. They would just start leveling the place like they did Crimera


81 posted on 03/01/2022 8:58:56 PM PST by The MAGA-Deplorian ( 2022 - VOTE THE BUMS OUT —— ALL OF THEM! RE-ELECT NO ONE!!)
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