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The Pearl Harbor Conspiracy
self | December 7, 2021 | Self

Posted on 12/07/2021 9:16:17 AM PST by Retain Mike

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To: Retain Mike

If the US would only have flown a SR71 over Japan prior.
We could have known what was to happen.

Or send the Nimitz back in time to attack the Japanese carriers....


41 posted on 12/07/2021 6:07:44 PM PST by minnesota_bound (I need more money. )
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To: Chainmail

The more I learn about that war, the more I am sure that we could have secured victory against the Japanese without butchering civilians or invading them. We just had to cut them off and wait for them to give up.


and what does history teach us about embargoes?


42 posted on 12/07/2021 6:18:18 PM PST by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
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To: PeterPrinciple
The more I learn about that war, the more I am sure that we could have secured victory against the Japanese without butchering civilians or invading them. We just had to cut them off and wait for them to give up.

Okinawa showed otherwise. That's why it was decided to drop the nukes, imagine the whole fight for Japan being like it was on Okinawa, it would have been an absolute slaughterhouse.

43 posted on 12/07/2021 6:20:31 PM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: volunbeer
You are still a True Believer, I guess - but the Eighth Air Force alone lost over 50,000 dead or captured airmen trying to bomb Germany into submission. We already knew that bombing civilians was immoral and breaking their morale by bombing wasn't effective.

Wasting our airmen to give the USSR a break is idiocy: they would have better served the war and in the long run, the Soviets by concentrating on direct attacks on German formations and their staging areas, their fixed fortifications - and just killed German combatants without wasting millions of tons of bombs and countless aircraft missing important targets and killing old people, women and children.

The Air Force has always despised the ground troops and any whisper of direct support ("aerial artillery") is dismissed as useless, yet well-directed and coordinated CAS kills the enemy, shortens the war, and save our ground-pounder lives in the process. The Soviets stuck to direct support as their primary offensive air power and they were right to do so.

That lack of concentration on CAS killed a lot our people too - look at what happened when the Air Force "supported" the drive out of the Normandy bocage using high and medium altitude bombers. They missed for a large part and killed hundreds of our troops because of inherent inaccuracy, no air to ground communication, and no common doctrine.

I served for over 23 years and I had a close look at the way our different service do things - the enormous wastes of men and moral authority of WWII should be learning experiences.

44 posted on 12/07/2021 6:26:54 PM PST by Chainmail (Frater magnus te spectat)
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To: combat_boots

From Melania

https://mobile.twitter.com/MELANIATRUMP/status/1468249918443827209?s=20


45 posted on 12/07/2021 6:28:51 PM PST by combat_boots (Hi God bless Israel and all who protect and defend her. Merry Christmas! In God We Trust! W)
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To: PeterPrinciple

A full blockade with continuous air attacks against barracks, airfields and ports and all shipping in or out subject to subarines or mines is hardly an embargo.


46 posted on 12/07/2021 6:57:41 PM PST by Chainmail (Frater magnus te spectat)
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To: dfwgator
Again, It is quite possible, given the complete annhilation of Japan's navy and almost no fuel remaining that Japan would have eventually capitulated. Invading Japan by direct amphibious assault would have insane - given the losses in Okinawa and Iwo Jima.

The really horrible losses of men during that war was because we had a tight timetable: we were in a hurry to get the war over with before the American people stopped supporting it.

Thanks to stupidity of our leadership, lessons learned were always after the fact and assaults carried out with little or no idea of what the enemy had waiting for us. Some of the objectives - Peleliu and Iwo - weren't even really necessary, yet thousands of good, motivated Marines were lost forever.

We were always told that succeed in our mission and if you can, save the lives of your troops. That is only possible if the folks in charge bother to find out what the enemy fortification systems, fire support and positions really are before launching the attack.

47 posted on 12/07/2021 7:07:27 PM PST by Chainmail (Frater magnus te spectat)
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To: Chainmail

I am a former ground pounder so I get the CAS problem. The issues in WWII were that there was little means of communication between ground forces and CAS. The bureaucracy of the military hampered the effort as different commands were often incapable of rapid communication with one another.

War is a horrible thing where young men are sent to die and suffer for the whims of old men. Just my .02

All things being equal I would rather we had not bombed cities and civilian populations but we did not start the war and they believed the manufacturing base could be destroyed - it wasn’t. They did what they thought was right at the time and many of them lived with the consequences the rest of their lives if they survived.

I lived in Germany as a kid and remember seeing the damage on cathedrals and other buildings from the bombing. Sad. Germany was a beautiful place and how an entire nation could fall under the evil spell of such a madman is troubling.

Our mass bombing campaign was not our shining moment but to me there can be very little comparison between the Allies and the Axis powers in WWII. It is undeniable that it diverted a large amount of resources from the Eastern Front and while our casualties were horrific they are insignificant when compared to the Russian carnage. We would have potentially had similar numbers if we had needed to invade Japan.

Such an evil needed to be fully eradicated and it was and let us pray it never raises its head again.

There are many opinions on the big war. Regardless, thanks for your service and Merry Christmas!


48 posted on 12/07/2021 9:04:24 PM PST by volunbeer (Find the truth and accept it - anything else is delusional)
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To: combat_boots

Thanks.


49 posted on 12/07/2021 9:09:23 PM PST by Retain Mike ( Sat Cong)
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To: volunbeer
Thank you for your insight. You know your subject.

As I said the British, an island nation and resource people in that in their history had to learn to make do with little and were very effective at guerrilla style, hit and run/commando warfare so as I said intelligence had to be guarded and shard judiciously with even their allies. As Napoleon said "No nation has allies, only interests'' and Britain's interests, well were Britain. Yes the British certainly were out to maintain their colonies which had been their economic life line of trade and goods and they could only do this by maintaining a powerful navy. But the Royal Navy couldn't be everywhere . As Clausewitz said "He who endeavors to defend everywhere defends nothing'' Churchill knew this and he knew Nazi Germany was Britain's main threat. In his memoirs Churchill confessed that his greatest fear was the U boat threat. He knew that if the Germans succeeded in sinking enough shipping to Britain they could quite likely succeed in starving Britain into stalemate or surrender so it was understandable to get us into the war even if it meant knowing the Japanese were going to attack but they saw that as their saving grace, if you will. Churchill later admitted that despite the carnage of the attack he said, to the effect "Now that America, this colossus of 130 millions souls and industry was in the fight with us I could now sleep the soundest of sleeps''.

50 posted on 12/07/2021 11:38:14 PM PST by jmacusa (America.Founded by geniuses. Now governed by idiots. )
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To: volunbeer
Great discussing things with you - you have an excellent knowledge base to draw from and it shows.

Semper Fi and Merry Christmas!

51 posted on 12/08/2021 3:31:45 AM PST by Chainmail (Frater magnus te spectat)
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To: Chainmail

I disagree, but you state your case well. I would just point out that throughout history, long wars usually devolve into savagery. All you have to do is look at the US Civil War and look how differently it was conducted in the last year relative to the first year.


52 posted on 12/08/2021 3:50:01 AM PST by Tallguy
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To: joe fonebone

Make it simple by using Laplace Transforms.


53 posted on 12/08/2021 11:52:16 AM PST by 353FMG
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To: cgbg

This is not a part of their history the Brits want us to know about...

Not the Brits. The Soviets, Richard Sorge tipped them of that Japan was going south.


54 posted on 12/09/2021 2:23:39 AM PST by rxh4n1
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