[UNGN]

Idiotic statement.

Why?

We counted people in Hospice with Do not Resuscitate orders as Covid deaths.

Thousands of them.

We counted over 200,000 people over 85 years old in the US.

I'm sure they were all spring chickens.

[daniel1212]

" We counted people in Hospice with Do not Resuscitate orders as Covid deaths. Thousands of them. We counted over 200,000 people over 85 years old in the US. I'm sure they were all spring chickens. "

That actually supports the reproof that you are responding to, that it is a false to opine “My theory is People are dying with Covid, but they aren’t being counted.” If "We counted people in Hospice with Do not Resuscitate orders as Covid deaths" then rather than Covid deaths undercounted,thenn it likely inflates them. Which is consistent with the broad criteria of the CDC guidelines for listing deaths as Covid.

While the page that documents no longer does the archive.org copy does (I found current version here), the CDC allows for probable/presumed cases (and deaths and for which hospitals can indeed obtain more gov. funding) based upon as little as having unexplained having shortness of breath or a cough and having traveled to or lived in an area with sustained, ongoing community transmission of SARS-CoV-2. Or shortness of breath and and just being a senior citizen or having “close contact” with another probable case.

Below are the pertinent excerpts far that criteria from the CDC page (emphasis mine) Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Bold emphasis is sometimes added by me:

…CSTE realizes that field investigations will involve evaluations of persons with no symptoms and these individuals will need to be counted as cases.

Probable

• Meets clinical criteria AND epidemiologic evidence with no confirmatory laboratory testing performed for COVID-19.

• Clinical Criteria

• At least two of the following symptoms: fever (measured or subjective), chills, rigors, myalgia, headache, sore throat, new olfactory and taste disorder(s)

OR

• At least one of the following symptoms: cough, shortness of breath, or difficulty breathing [this is under Clinical Criteria]

Epidemiologic Linkage

One or more of the following exposures in the 14 days before onset of symptoms:

• Close contact** with a confirmed or probable case of COVID-19 disease;

OR

• Travel to or residence in an area with sustained, ongoing community transmission of SARS-CoV-2.
• Member of a risk cohort as defined by public health authorities during an outbreak.[1]

The above provide minimal criteria by which a person can be classed as being having Covid-19 and dying of the same. And for which hospitals can indeed obtain more gov. funding for them.[2]

Based upon this criteria we can easily surmise that many cases and deaths are being classed as Covid-19 when in reality they are something else, including the flu (cases of which are very low).

It is true that many Covid-19 cases and deaths are not reported, however, unlike cases in which about have have no symptoms, I think it is far more likely that there are more deaths being reported as by Covid-19 then that are missed. The reason for this is because those with symptoms are much more likely to have been tested and diagnosed as having Covid-19 and those with symptoms of the ones most likely to die.

Footnotes

[1] Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

[2] Fact check: Hospitals get paid more if patients listed as COVID-19, on ventilators

While the page that documents no longer does the archive.org copy does (I found current version here), the CDC allows for probable/presumed cases (and deaths and for which hospitals can indeed obtain more gov. funding) based upon as little as having unexplained having shortness of breath or a cough and having traveled to or lived in an area with sustained, ongoing community transmission of SARS-CoV-2. Or shortness of breath and and just being a senior citizen or having “close contact” with another probable case.

Below are the pertinent excerpts far that criteria from the CDC page (emphasis mine) Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Bold emphasis is sometimes added by me:

…CSTE realizes that field investigations will involve evaluations of persons with no symptoms and these individuals will need to be counted as cases.

Probable

• Meets clinical criteria AND epidemiologic evidence with no confirmatory laboratory testing performed for COVID-19.

• Clinical Criteria

• At least two of the following symptoms: fever (measured or subjective), chills, rigors, myalgia, headache, sore throat, new olfactory and taste disorder(s)

OR

• At least one of the following symptoms: cough, shortness of breath, or difficulty breathing [this is under Clinical Criteria]

Epidemiologic Linkage

One or more of the following exposures in the 14 days before onset of symptoms:

• Close contact** with a confirmed or probable case of COVID-19 disease;

OR

• Travel to or residence in an area with sustained, ongoing community transmission of SARS-CoV-2.
• Member of a risk cohort as defined by public health authorities during an outbreak.[1]

The above provide minimal criteria by which a person can be classed as being having Covid-19 and dying of the same. And for which hospitals can indeed obtain more gov. funding for them.[2]

Based upon this criteria we can easily surmise that many cases and deaths are being classed as Covid-19 when in reality they are something else, including the flu (cases of which are very low).

It is true that many Covid-19 cases and deaths are not reported, however, unlike cases in which about have have no symptoms, I think it is far more likely that there are more deaths being reported as by Covid-19 then that are missed. The reason for this is because those with symptoms are much more likely to have been tested and diagnosed as having Covid-19 and those with symptoms of the ones most likely to die.

Footnotes

[1] Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

[2] Fact check: Hospitals get paid more if patients listed as COVID-19, on ventilators