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To: DiogenesLamp

Yes, I’m sure they’re true an accurate. To be clear, the sole truth I’ve been proving is the motivation for Southern secession. Which was the preservation of slavery. The constitutional right to secession, Lincoln’s goals, etc are side issues, to which you always deflect the debate. Just like in this post. avoiding the ludicrous idea that the Cornerstone speech can be disregarded because it was reported in the newspapers.


804 posted on 08/19/2021 8:30:11 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: SoCal Pubbie; PeaRidge
Yes, I’m sure they’re true an accurate.

Those three states clearly say they have a right to secede or "resume" their powers. So what evidence do you have that demonstrates secession to be illegal?

To be clear, the sole truth I’ve been proving is the motivation for Southern secession.

We don't care about the motivation for Southern secession. My argument has always been that they had a right to secede, and no one has a right to say "except for this reason."

Even if their reason for secession is a bad reason, we do not get to put conditions on their right to secede. They can do so for reasons we don't like, in the manner of Free Speech can be about speech we don't like.

But I also put forth the idea that their stated reasons for secession are very likely not their real reason for secession, and the Northern newspapers quoted above by PeaRidge indicate that the Northern newspapers perceived their real reason was to gain commercial independence.

I.E. Money.

The constitutional right to secession, ... etc are side issues,

Absolutely disagree. The fundamental issue of the civil war is whether there is or is not a *RIGHT* to secede.

If there is a right to secede, then there is no right to "preserve the Union." If there is no right to secede, then there is a necessity to "preserve the Union."

The bulk of evidence of which I am aware demonstrates that the right to secede was known and understood when the US Constitution was ratified, and therefore it is legal for states to leave the Union if they so choose.

So the morality and legality of the war hinges on this fundamental point, and your side has precious little evidence to support the claim that a Union freely joined cannot be freely left.

845 posted on 08/19/2021 12:31:10 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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