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To: SoCal Pubbie
Re: The Horizon, you seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth. On the one hand you claim the law forced Southerners to use Northern shipping interests.

I guess you just completely missed the dates in question. The Horizon was built in a South Carolina shipyard in 1797, I think. By 1860, there weren't any Southern shipyards left except the Navy shipyard in Norfolk.

If you will once again read through Robert Rhett's address from South Carolina, you will see he mentions the destruction of Southern ship building as one of their grievances.

Then you claim the South had their own ships. How do you reconcile the fact that if they had their own ships then there was no need to use anyone else with your claim of coercion ?

In the 1790s they were building ships. By the 1860s, they had ceased. The Northern shipping industry was like a closed shop. They favored their own, and were quite clannish about it. The government favored them too.

Of course you're an Olympic level gymnast when it comes to your tortured logic, so I'm sure you'll try to worm your way out.

Yes, pointing out that things change in 60 years is a diabolically clever trick.

610 posted on 08/14/2021 1:00:07 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp; SoCal Pubbie
The CSS Nashville, built in Montgomery, Montgomery County, was one of the last ironclads constructed by the Confederacy during the Civil War and one of the last major Confederate ships to see action before the end of the war, and probably the only ironclad constructed in Montgomery. The Nashville was outfitted with the most advanced naval armaments of the era.

The construction of the CSS Nashville and other southern ironclads was prompted by Confederate secretary of the navy and former U.S. senator from Florida Stephen R. Mallory, who was greatly concerned about the South's lack of naval power. When the 11 southern states seceded from the United States and formed the Confederate States of America, they had the makings of an army but none of a navy. The new government had to improvise one largely from scratch and with little seafaring tradition and few warships or naval facilities, as compared with the United States. Stephen R. Mallory Mallory improvised a four-point maritime strategy: the Confederate Navy would forego existing naval shipbuilding doctrine in favor of new technology, including armored warships, submarines, and mines (then called "torpedoes"); it would build a fleet of ironclads to defend southern harbors and rivers and prevent invasions by the U.S. Navy into the southern interior; it would construct a fleet of swift blockade runners to bring critically needed arms and supplies into the Confederacy; and it would hire or commission raiders to destroy federal merchant vessels. The Confederacy contracted various shipbuilders for 50 armored warships and by extraordinary efforts 22 were commissioned and sent into battle. The most famous were the first CSS Virginia, the CSS Arkansas, the CSS Tennessee, and the CSS Nashville. The Confederate navy also possessed a different ship named the CSS Nashville, a blockade runner that was sunk.

612 posted on 08/14/2021 1:03:32 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn...)
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To: DiogenesLamp
“By 1860, there weren't any Southern shipyards left except the Navy shipyard in Norfolk.”

That's not true. New Orleans also had shipyards, but they only built riverboats as I mentioned. But they quickly began building warships in 1861. They could have built ocean going cargo ships too, but the South just didn't BOTHER to for fifty plus years. They were never coerced or subjugated by law. You've given no coherent reason why the South didn't simply bypassed Northern shippers but just regurgitated made up claims of legislative fiat.

629 posted on 08/14/2021 1:51:54 PM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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