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Is Kamala Harris a Natural Born Citizen?
Aug 11, 2020 | Self

Posted on 08/11/2020 7:30:27 PM PDT by captain_dave

Is Kamala Harris qualified to be Vice President? Is Kamala Harris a "Natural Born Citizen"?

While she was born in California in 1964, both her parents were, at that time, recent immigrants. Her mother immigrated in 1960 and her father in 1961 (according to the bio in Wikipedia). So, there is a serious question whether she is a natural born citizen.

The old accepted understanding of "natural born citizen" is a person born of two citizen parents, so at birth has no other loyalties, or claims of loyalty.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: biden; election; harris; kamala; notthisagain
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To: Redwood71
She’s a citizen at birth...
Yes, she is a citizen at birth, but that is only through USC 8.
Or are you too ignorant to realize that?
Immigration and Nationality Act
The INA is contained in the United States Code (U.S.C.). The U.S. Code is a collection of all the laws of the United States. Title 8 of the U.S. Code covers "Aliens and Nationality."

Do you concede that her parents were ALIENS, as defined by law, at the time of her birth and that her parents weren't even U.S. citizens??

...she can be president.
No, she cannot be President of the United States.

She can be president of the Chess Club.

141 posted on 08/13/2020 1:53:15 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Redwood71
It's a shame you didn't put as much effort into Minor v. Happersett as you did United States v. Wong Kim Ark.

Your 14th Amendment arguments are futile, unless you believe she was a slave in the past needing citizenship status with all inherent rights.

Is that what you believe?

142 posted on 08/13/2020 1:57:59 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: philman_36

“The case must be pretty damning to the natural born citizen antagonist’s argument, don’t you think?”

I get the feeling in Obama’s case, they had a cart horse routine. They got him into dual citizenship, sealed his birth information in England, still is, and hey had a fire that destroyed his American cert until both the short and long forms could be mysteriously recovered from the ashes.

Course, both had misinformation on them inconsistent with the other, and the name of the birthing hospital wasn’t the correct name until ti changed 17 years after Obama’s birth. It was called something else and should have had the correct name for official documents. (Didn’t) So it’s obvious they cooked them up in time to keep him in office. And screwed that up.

Tack that on to his surrendering his law license to keep from being prosecuted for lying on his bar exam and that his relatives admitted they were in attendance of his birth at Queen’s General Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya, two days before his recorded birth in Hawaii, and the hits just keep coming. Maternal grandmother and grandaunt.

https://www.iardc.org

You ask how they could get away with it? In those days a relative could call the records people and tell them a birth had happened and they would make the cert for them and place it on file. No questions asked if enough of the information was given. Life is easy in Hawaii...hang loose, broda, and mahalo nui loa.

rwood


143 posted on 08/13/2020 2:00:20 PM PDT by Redwood71
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To: Redwood71
Regarding Minor vs. Happersett...

...it was never doubted that all children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.
You make the case in your own reply...

TWO citizen parents. Plural, not singular.
Her parents weren't citizens at the time of her birth thus she falls under USC 8 laws (uniform rule) of naturalization.

Article I, Section 8, Clause 4: The Congress shall have Power . . . To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization...

A natural born citizen doesn't require such a law (rule) to become a citizen.

144 posted on 08/13/2020 2:06:48 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Political Junkie Too

Thanks for that!


145 posted on 08/13/2020 2:08:30 PM PDT by The Mayor (I am outraged at your outrage toward the outrage!)
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To: Redwood71
You ask how they could get away with it?

I asked no such thing.
Or did you intend that as a rhetorical question?
/rhetorical question

The case must be pretty damning to the natural born citizen antagonist’s argument, don’t you think?

Nothing you wrote answers my question.

146 posted on 08/13/2020 2:10:09 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: philman_36

This discussion as to the definition of natural born citizen has been going on for a long time. Long before we were even born. The 14th amendment defines citizen birth right as being born in US territory or in a state. The only thing you have displayed for me has been court rulings that have not generated a law, a federal title, or an amendment, just a legal determination, and in some cases a summary disposition. There is no federal law that determines what a natural born citizen is and the only defining reference to citizenship determination practiced is in the 14th amendment. If anyone wishes to challenge this in court, this may, or may not, be upheld and may even have to go to the supreme court again who may not want to hear it...again. Either way, it is only in the courts and I know of no law within the confines of the federal law that determines the citizenship for basis of an election to POTUS except the 14th.

This has been challenged a number of times, Obama, Cruz and McCain in the latter days and there have been five presidents that would have been questioned for this same reason: Andrew Jackson, James Buchanan, Chester A. Arthur, Woodrow Wilson, and Herbert Hoover. Good luck on your efforts. I don’t like Harris either, but this way is not going to work and hasn’t for a lot of years with many different participants.

rwood


147 posted on 08/14/2020 9:11:05 AM PDT by Redwood71
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To: philman_36
TWO citizen parents. Plural, not singular.

Yes but then there's the next three sentences: "Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts."

So you may doubt that Harris is a natural-born citizen based on her parentage but so what? Your doubts don't make her unqualified. Chief Justice Waite made it clear it was not his purpose with this decision to end your doubts or settle the matter one way or the other.

A natural born citizen doesn't require such a law (rule) to become a citizen.

So many people claim. Unfortunately there is not a court decision that backs it up.

148 posted on 08/14/2020 9:18:04 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: Redwood71
Thanks for sharing your opinion.

...the only defining reference to citizenship determination practiced is in the 14th amendment.
You obviously won't accept Minor v. Happersett, or any other case it seems, as having such a defining reference so I won't even bother with that since you are clearly determined to ignore it.

And, once again, you keep bringing up the 14th Amendment and applying it in a manner for which it was not intended.

149 posted on 08/14/2020 10:13:40 AM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: DoodleDawg
A natural born citizen doesn't require such a law (rule) to become a citizen.

So many people claim. Unfortunately there is not a court decision that backs it up.

Then you can surely explain how someone does become a natural born citizen, can't you?
There should be something besides a court decision that explains how such citizenship is gained or else the framers of the Constitution would have had no reference for its inclusion.

150 posted on 08/14/2020 10:22:14 AM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: philman_36
Then you can surely explain how someone does become a natural born citizen, can't you?

By being born in the U.S. and subject to its jurisdiction, as the 14th Amendment says. The Constitution identifies two forms on citizenship, natural born and naturalized. If you're not one then you're the other.

And of course you will disagree with me. So what? Your opinion is neither more valid than mine or less valid. The opinion that matters is that of the courts, and so far they haven't definitively weighed in.

There should be something besides a court decision that explains how such citizenship is gained or else the framers of the Constitution would have had no reference for its inclusion.

The Constitution is the basis for our laws and the courts interpret it. Those are all that matter. Blackstone's opinion or Vattel's opinion or your opinion or my opinion, or even the founder's opinion, is not law. According to the 14th Amendment and current federal law Harris became a citizen at birth. Natural-born citizen. That stands unless the courts say otherwise.

151 posted on 08/14/2020 10:30:48 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
BTW...Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born
within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents.
As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first.

This was what he was talking about to which there was no doubt!

...it was never doubted that all children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.

You can't leave out what he said was already clearly decided.

152 posted on 08/14/2020 10:31:22 AM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: philman_36
This was what he was talking about to which there was no doubt!

No doubt at all. Agree with you 100%; a person born in the U.S. of two citizen parents is most definitely a natural-born citizen. But Chief Justice Waite did not say that that was the only definition of natural-born citizen. He clearly stated that people believe that natural-born citizenship status is passed on through other circumstances, and while people may doubt that that is true it was not the intent of the court to settle those doubts. So you have identified one way of becoming a natural-born citizen. The question is whether it is the only one. The answer is that the courts have not said.

153 posted on 08/14/2020 10:41:22 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
He clearly stated that people believe that natural-born citizenship status is passed on through other circumstances, and while people may doubt that that is true it was not the intent of the court to settle those doubts.

What people believe is not the law.
And he did state what a natural born citizen was and that there was no doubt about that.

154 posted on 08/14/2020 11:33:24 AM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: philman_36
What people believe is not the law.

Not necessarily the law, that is true. You believe Harris is not a natural-born citizen, Harris believes she is. One of you is right and the question is which? The answer is unknown, not until the courts decide.

And he did state what a natural born citizen was and that there was no doubt about that.

And again he also said that may or may not be the only definition of natural born citizenship, and that it was not the purpose of the court to answer that question as part of the court's decision.

155 posted on 08/14/2020 11:42:19 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
...and that it was not the purpose of the court to answer that question as part of the court's decision.
I'm fully aware of that! That's because THAT QUESTION WAS NEVER ASKED!

MINOR v. HAPPERSETT

The question is presented in this case, whether, since the adoption of the fourteenth amendment, a woman, who is a citizen of the United States and of the State of Missouri, is a voter in that State, notwithstanding the provision of the constitution and laws of the State, which confine the right of suffrage to men alone. We might, perhaps, decide the case upon other grounds, but this question is fairly made. From the opinion we find that it was the only one decided in the court below, and it is the only one which has been argued here. The case was undoubtedly brought to this court for the sole purpose of having that question decided by us, and in view of the evident propriety there is of having it settled, so far as it can be by such a decision, we have concluded to waive all other considerations and proceed at once to its determination. Snip... There is no doubt that women may be citizens. They are persons, and by the fourteenth amendment 'all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof' are expressly declared to be 'citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.' But, in our opinion, it did not need this amendment to give them that position. Before its adoption the Constitution of the United States did not in terms prescribe who should be citizens of the United States or of the several States, yet there were necessarily such citizens without such provision.

Yet STILL, no matter how hard you deny it or refuse to accept it, a definition of a natural born citizen is in the decision.

At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.

Two citizen parents.

156 posted on 08/14/2020 12:18:00 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: DoodleDawg
You believe Harris is not a natural-born citizen, Harris believes she is.

BTW...THE LAW (USC 8) says she is not a natural born citizen. She was naturalized after birth, no naturalization proceeding was necessary. What I "believe" has nothing to do with it.

SHE can believe any damn thing she wants.

157 posted on 08/14/2020 12:21:44 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: philman_36
I'm fully aware of that! That's because THAT QUESTION WAS NEVER ASKED!

And since it was not asked and was not a matter before the court at that time then any comments Chief Justice Waite made on natural-born citizenship were made in dicta. Not binding as precedent. So until the question of who is a natural-born citizen and who is not IS asked of the Supreme Court, and a decision is handed down, you and Harris will have to agree to disagree.

et STILL, no matter how hard you deny it or refuse to accept it, a definition of a natural born citizen is in the decision.

A definition. Is that the only definition? We don't know. Regardless of how hard you deny it. And with all that, and as I've said before, Chief Justice Waite's definition was made in dicta and is not binding as precedent.

158 posted on 08/14/2020 12:33:49 PM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
PUBLIC LAW 4 14-JUNE 27, 1952 (page 235)
That this Act, divided into titles, chapters, and sections according to the following table of contents, may be cited as the "Immigration and Nationality Act". TITLE III—NATIONALITY AND NATURALIZATION CHAPTER 1—NATIONALITY AT BIRTH AND BY COLLECTIVE, NATURALIZATION
NATIONALS AND CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES AT BIRTH
SEC. 301.
(a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: (1) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
Snip...(page 169)
(23) The term "naturalization" means the conferring of nationality of a state upon a person after birth, by any means whatsoever. Her citizenship was conferred upon her.
159 posted on 08/14/2020 12:40:05 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: philman_36
BTW...THE LAW (USC 8) says she is not a natural born citizen. She was naturalized after birth, no naturalization proceeding was necessary. What I "believe" has nothing to do with it.

Assuming you are referring to 8 U.S. Code § 1401 it says she became a citizen at birth, not a citizen after birth. It's right there in section (a).

SHE can believe any damn thing she wants.

As can you and I. As I've said, several times, the only opinion that matters is the court's.

160 posted on 08/14/2020 12:40:08 PM PDT by DoodleDawg
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