Hydroxychloroquine Trial for Treating COVID-19 Disappoints

Reason ^ | 04/16/2020 | Ronald Bailey

[TChad]

(2) Just use HCQ plus "Standard of Care" (SOC), whatever that means.

(2) Start treatment late.

(3) No azithromycin.

(4) No zinc.

Yes, that should give the MSM the headline they are looking for.

[Bommer]

Bet it was some high quality pills. Whats not to trust when it comes to commies?

[MIA_eccl1212]

This is our absolute guarantee that the treatment is premium grade number 1 1st order of success!!!

China and the democrats are birds of a feather.
They are both liars to the very core will do anything to advance the despotic power of their own party. Both are the party of death neither of them will admit it.

[rmichaelj]

This is not a critique on the original poster. He is just the messenger.

Ok, digging into the study, even taking into account the weaknesses described by other posters, it did show a difference in alleviating symptoms in the hcq group which did not receive other antivirals.

Also showed reductions in inflammatory markers (crp).

Also- given that only 1% of the study participants had what was considered a serious case of the illness, neither group had any deaths(at least I couldn’t find a report of any in the outcomes), so we can’t compare mortality rates.

I could design and perform better studies as an undergrad- and could certainly draw more accurate conclusions. Pretty weak tea.

[Widget Jr]

The actual study: Hydroxychloroquine in patients with COVID-19: an open-label, randomized, controlled trial and PDF.

"Abstract:

"Abstract Objectives To assess the efficacy and safety of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) plus standard-of-care (SOC) compared with SOC alone in adult patients with COVID-19."

Standard of care definition from Medicine net:

"In legal terms, the level at which the average, prudent provider in a given community would practice. It is how similarly qualified practitioners would have managed the patient's care under the same or similar circumstances. The medical malpractice plaintiff must establish the appropriate standard of care and demonstrate that the standard of care has been breached."

Comment from site by "Stef Verlinden":

"Please study the paper thorougly before jumping to conclusions. Standard of care means that (most of the) patients were also treated with lopinavir-ritonavir, arbidol, oseltamivir, virazole, entecavir, ganciclovir and/or interferon-alpha.

"The authors also did a post-hoc subanalyses with patients who did not get other medications other than HCQ in the treatment group or nothing in the SOC group. And, for what it is worth, here they found ‘a significant efficacy of HCQ on alleviating symptoms’.

"What also could be of interest is that patients treated with HCQ showed a significantly higher reduction of CRP. One of the proposed MOA for HCQ is an anti-inflammatory one.

"All in all a very weak study from which not much can be concluded"

[lepton]

Did they include zinc, or did they just use HCQ?

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There’s that, and there’s when in the cycle. The early information *suggested* that it was most helpful in slowing the peak in virus - and less useful once a peak was already reached. As an emergency use, those authorized would most likely be after the virus became prevalent enough that the effect of HCQ would be minimal.

That said, this is why you run trials. You’d think if the effect was truly dramatic that you’d not be seeing the late-cycle surges in deaths to such an extent.

Still more testing to go.

[lepton]

1% of the study participants

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1.5 people?

[Trump Girl Kit Cat]

Reason + Chinese Study = FAKE NEWS, FAKE STUDY

[dennisw]

No mention of Zinc...how dumb is the author? Plus an antibiotic like doxy must be used. Maybe it was just the dumb Chinese. My opinion of their national IQ has plummeted. The bio lab the virus escaped from was not run up to standards.

Then the Chicom scum said to Wuhan citizens-— You want out for a while? Then fly out of your international airport because you are under quarantine. You cannot travel in China.

[Steve Van Doorn]

Adam Danischewski pointed out in the thread
China has a Universal BCG vaccine policy (Bacillus Calmette–Guérin (BCG) (tuberculosis vaccine)) - BCG precludes viral replication. Under hospitalization the viral load is not increased and what you see here is that BCG vaccinated people heal as quickly as those with HCQ. That's no surprise, HCQ does not KILL SARS-CoV2 it only precludes viral replication. These results are expected with those BCG-vaccinated and do not at all cast doubt on the efficacy of HCQ in the treatment of those with SARS-CoV2 who have not been BCG-vaccinated.

Zinc kills the virus not HCQ they didn't give them any. The study was looking to see if HCQ killed the virus. My brain hurts trying to understand what they where trying to accomplish with this study

[olezip]

Did they include zinc, or did they just use HCQ?

It looks like Chinese disinformation. The article did not mention HCQ being administered with complementary drugs like zinc. HCQ alone does not seem to do much.

Why would they just use HCQ alone when it is already known that it is much less effective?

[trebb]

Yep - and a Chinese study that claims there’s a “standard of care” that’s better...

[mdmathis6]

Zinc may be inhibiting the iron from damaged hemoglobin packets from competing with regular blood cells for oxygen much in the same way that zinc inhibits iron from rusting due to the galvanizing process.

[rmichaelj]

They initially assessed 191 patients- so 2 people.

[olezip]

Did they include zinc, or did they just use HCQ?

It looks like Chinese disinformation. The article did not mention HCQ being administered with complementary drugs like zinc. HCQ alone does not seem to do much.

Why would they just use HCQ alone when it is already known that it is much less effective?

[SeekAndFind]

Thanks for your explanation regarding BCG and HCQ as it applies to this study.

Just curious, who is Adam Danischewski?

[lepton]

Thanks for the correction.

Still so small it renders the results pretty meaningless other than not showing a strong sign of making things worse. Not sure why they bothered.

[Steve Van Doorn]

Adam Danischewski was a poster in the thread. He made a very good point which I thought I would state where I read it.