Posted on 03/18/2020 4:48:53 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
| “ | Well, Roberts had grown so rich, he wanted to retire. He took me to his cabin and he told me his secret. 'I am not the Dread Pirate Roberts', he said. 'My name is Ryan; I inherited the ship from the previous Dread Pirate Roberts, just as you will inherit it from me. The man I inherited it from is not the real Dread Pirate Roberts either. His name was Cummerbund. The real Roberts has been retired fifteen years and living like a king in Patagonia.' | ” |
I read post #142 ... and you didn’t answer the question at all.... you just deflected as usual. You have no ability to defend your faith ... only try to destroy others.
Again: John 17:22 Christ prays to God the Father that his disciples “that they may be one, even as we are one”
This passage makes complete sense in my Christology.
To obey Christ’s prayer/commandment with your Christology you have to form a Quad-une.
Check-mate.
'Feelings' come and go and therefore can be easily manipulated. It is one of the Hallmarks of false religions and cults in recruitment tactics and sustaining a stronghold on it's members.
I did actually. I told you I never claimed that John 17 was the basis of the Bible's teaching of the Triune God.
Again: John 17:22 Christ prays to God the Father that his disciples “that they may be one, even as we are one” This passage makes complete sense in my Christology.
Yes, but you are in the mormon cult... so your "Christology" includes a non-eternal, created Christ, who cannot save...
Ain't nobody got time for that!
To obey Christ’s prayer/commandment with your Christology you have to form a Quad-une.
Well, teppe, I do not, because I do not believe what you claim I believe.
Seriously, FRiend, you keep blurting out the same two things:
1. the trinity was a made up doctrine in the 4th century
2. the passage in John disproves the trinity.
I answered both. But it's like you have an earworm caught in your mind and you keep coming back and back to the same things I've addressed.
And you've not answered the list of questions I posted to you.
What?....You say “Only Christ himself, can declare who is worthy of his salvation”.....
Nobody is ‘worthy’ as everyone has fallen short of the glory of God. Further, Christ’s Salvation is available to ‘all’ who seek Him.....it’s never been something you earn nor will it ever be so.... No sinner is left out of heaven’s offer of pardon ‘by Grace’ for His grace has “appeared to all men” through the gospel message....We have done nothing to provoke God to offer us his favor — He is not in our debt; we are in his.
Truly, if a sinner is lost, it will not be God’s fault for He has offered His grace to save any who seek Him.....the offer of grace is unconditional (requiring no human activity), the experience of grace, however, is contingent upon man’s acceptance of it.
I have found, that the only thing, that helps me to avoid false religious cults like Mormonism, is to be well grounded in the Bible.
......”I have found, that the only thing, that helps me to avoid false religious cults like Mormonism, is to be well grounded in the Bible”......
Which is exactly why for centuries the attacks against the reliability and authority of the scriptures has been and remains relentless. In the garden the enemy of mens souls actively created ‘doubt’ of God’s words to them. It remains His primary tactic today.
You are absolutely correct, and I wrongly worded that statement. Nobody is worthy or merits Christ’s salvation.
However, Christ is the Judge of all mankind, not you or I.
No man knows what good or evil lurks in the hearts of men. No man can usurp Christ’s roll and pronounce who is acceptable to him and who is not.
Which is why Christ has sayed: Matt. 7. [1] Judge not, that ye be not judged. [2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
I have put your Christology in ‘Check’ with John 17: 20-22. I sincerely believe that it is ‘Check-mate’.
This is your opportunity to quote a biblical scripture to back up your Christology and show me why I am wrong, and possibly put me in scriptural ‘Check’.
Can you do it? Or will you respond with smoke and mirrors and deflections to try to divert attention elsewhere?
There’s no sense in debating 4th base, when you can’t biblically back-up your Christology on first-base.
Your in ‘Check’ .... and it’s your move.
exactly! +1
It is also important to remember Christ’s words:
Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Welome back!
John 17:20-22 is not part of my Christology, so you did not put it in "check."
Seriously, you continue to not listen.
Ain't nobody bot time for that!
I love discussing the gospel of our Almighty God, and our Lord, Jesus Christ .... however, I’m also a working man .... so please excuse my delay in getting back to you....as I have bills to pay.
If you desire responses to my beliefs I will reply only to Biblical or LDS scripture (Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price).
I have no-interest in discussing the latest anti-mormon fake news (innuendo, non-LDS doctrinal opinions/speculations, conspiracy theories, or exaggerated character assassinations).
So with me ... Scriptures talk .... Bull-Shaving-cream walks!
Uh ... is the Bible part of your Christology?
John 17: 20-22 is arguably the most important part of the New Testament when Christ is praying to God in preparation for his Atonement/Crucifixion.
If you reject the ‘Book of John’ from your Christology .... exactly which parts of the New Testament do you rely on?
You Ain’t Listening .... Can you defend your beliefs or only attack others peoples belief in Christ?
This is your chance to prove that you are not a hypocrite.
I have placed you in “Check’ by John 17:20-22 WHICH ARE CHRIST’S WORDS FROM THE BIBLE!!!!
By your refusal to respond ... are you admitting that it is ‘Check-Mate’?
teppe, I am not convinced you are not reading my posts.
John 17:22 is not about the trinity. I never said it was. That was you.
Understood.
If you desire responses to my beliefs I will reply only to Biblical or LDS scripture (Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price).
No worries. I will take that as a clear statement that you were unwilling to answer a single question I asked.
And I note that you don't respond to Elsie posting quotes from Mormon writings either, so it seems a dishonest deflection.
As is your right, and the continual practice of those in the cult.
Our Judgement has ‘already’ been paid on Calvary.....Jesus said...”It is finished”...there is ‘now’ therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.
Way too many times we hear people wrongly quote the Bible, saying the scripture, “says not to judge”..... But did you also know we are called to judge?.....1 Corinthians 6:2 tells us cleraly... ‘Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?’
Further John 7:24 instructs us...” Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”....We are commanded to exercise righteous judgment. .... We must be careful not to make unqualified judgments but we must judge appropriately when commanded to do so.
There are many scripture references where Jesus applauded those who Judged.....Luke 7 tells us Jesus said to Simon “You have judged rightly.” as just one example. And we We must be careful not to make unqualified judgments. But we must judge appropriately when commanded to do so.
OK, well... I'll do my best.
Here is my first list of questions, based on the claims of mormonism in it's writings... Since you work hard during the day, please answer a handful when you have opportunity.
....
- If the Book of Mormon is true, why do Indians fail to turn white when they become Mormons? (2 Nephi 30:6, prior to the 1981 revision).
- If the Book of Mormon is true, then why has the Mormon church changed it? Examples are: 1 Nephi 11:21; 19:20; 20:1 and Alma 29:4. Compare these with the original Book of Mormon. (Gerald and Sandra Tanner have counted 3913 changes in the book of Mormon, excluding punctuation changes).
- How did Joseph Smith carry home the golden plates of the Book of Mormon, and how did the witnesses lift them so easily? (They weighed about 230 lbs. Gold, with a density of 19.3 weighs 1204.7 lbs. per cubic foot. The plates were 7" x 8" by about 6." See Articles of Faith, by Talmage, p. 262, 34th ed.).
- If Moroni devoutly practiced the Mormon Gospel, why is he an angel now rather than a God? (Doc. & Cov. 132:17, 37)
- Why do Mormons emphasize part of the Word of Wisdom and ignore the part forbidding the eating of meat except in winter, cold or famine? (Doc. & Cov. 89:12,13).
- Why did the Nauvoo House not stand forever and ever? (Doc. & Cov. 124:56-60).
- If Jesus was conceived as a result of a physical union between God and Mary, how was Jesus born of a virgin? (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 50).
- How did Nephi with a few men on a new continent build a temple like Solomon's while Solomon needed 163,300 workmen and seven years to build his temple? (1 Kings 5:13-18 and 2 Nephi 5:15-17).
- Why was Joseph Smith still preaching against polygamy in October 1843 after he got his revelation in July 1843 commanding the practice of polygamy? (Doc. & Cov. 132; and History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 46, or Teachings of the Prophet, p. 324).
- God rejected the fig leaf aprons which Adam and Eve made (Gen. 3:21). Why do Mormons memorialize the fall by using fig leaf aprons in the secret temple ceremonies?
And this??
Do you believe God was once a “man” like you? If so, wouldn’t that make him once a sinner like you?
“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! …I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form — like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man… I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea …he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did… Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, …the same as all Gods have done before you…”—Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-347
We can start there.
I spent all morning on this, by the grace of God: You mean you think that we believe such
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Moronic perversions of the gospel (partial list): |
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• God the Father is a married exalted-man (a physical being of "flesh and bones") having completed the process of becoming an exalted being by obedience to the god over him (1), • having been a man like us) and with Jehovah-Christ being the brother of Lucifer (2), • born to the exalted Man-God and his Heavenly Mother goddess (3), • and who was born in Jerusalem in His incarnation (4), • and with celestial marriage being required for the highest exaltation (5) • in the tripartite Mormonic celestial kingdom (6) • with their polygamous god, as Mormonic men and women evolve into being a god as did their father who begat them as spirit children, begetting spirit children themselves (7) • while all the creeds of Christendom were declared to an abomination (8) • since golden-plate, seer-stone Joe Smith (9) got it right. • Those who are ignorant souls including liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie (which some would relegate those who reject Mormonism as being) are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, remaining in spirit prison for 1,000 years after death before being converted and placed in ground-level of the celestial kingdom, while apostates no forgiveness live in eternal "Outer Darkness," torment, and misery with Satan and his angels forever. (10) Yet Mormonism claims to be the the Christian church of the 1st century, and in fact claims the Christian church was established as early as 147 B.C. (11) and that people were called "Christians" as early as 73 B.C. |
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In contrast, the Scriptures which Joe Smith and followers profanely invoke in order to give their lies an air of authority, states that, ► God always was God, that "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God ." (Psalms 90:2) ► God's essential nature is not that of flesh and blood, but spirit, for "God is a Spirit," (John 4:24) and "a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me [Christ] have." (Luke 24:39) ► Christ existed from eternity, (whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting:" Micah 5:2) ► through whom Lucifer was created, (Ezekiel 28:13; Jn. 1:1-3; Col. 1:16) ► God, as the Father, Son and Spirit, created all things by Himself, without any Heavenly Mother or angels helping: "Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone ; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself ." (Isaiah 44:24) ► In His incarnation Christ was born in Bethlehem ) which Scripture specifically records and affirms. (Micah 5:2; Matthew 2:1, 2:5,6,8,16, Luke 2:4,15; John 7:42) Angels are not married, and those in the resurrection will be as they are. (Matthew 22:30) ► There are only two locations in Scripture now in the after-life , these being with God or in Hell, which souls therein are cast into the Lake of Fire. The next conscious reality for believers will be with the Lord, (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) while for the lost it is torment and eternal punishment relative to their sins and accountability. (Rv. 20:10-15; Matthew 11:20-24; 25:41,46; Luke 10:11-12; 12:48; Hebrews 10:28-29) ► Finally, rather than Mormonism being the one true church, faith in the Mormonic gospel is that of faith in "another Jesus, whom we have not preached, "another spirit," "another gospel, (2 Corinthians 11:4) the preachers of which are accursed, (Gal. 1:8) this not being the gospel of the N.T. church, and thus faith in the Mormonic gospel will send one to Hell, and hear the terrible words warned of by the True Christ: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:22-23) Aditioal resources: Utah Lighthouse™ Ministry; The Bible Versus the Book of Mormon |
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1. LDS 5th President Lorenzo Snow: "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be." Joseph Fielding Smith: "Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47). "‘God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens,’ and that men ‘have got to learn how to be Gods … the same as all Gods have done before.’ (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng&_r=1) 2 Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers. (Doctrine and Covenants 93:21.) 3. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that all human beings, male and female, are beloved spirit children of heavenly parents, a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng&_r=1) 4. born "at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers." Alma 7:10 5. Doctrine and Covenants 131:1–3; Gospel Principles: LDS Church 2009, pp. 219–224,272,277. "Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple. (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/06195_eng.pdf, p. 272) 6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrees_of_glory#Celestial_kingdom 7. The Origin of Man & Organic Evolution (PDF). Rexburg, Idaho: Brigham Young University-Idaho. 2004. pp. 1–3: "All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother ... [and are] capable, by experience through ages and aeons, of evolving into a God." (https://web.archive.org/web/20160805030919/http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/OriginOfMan.pdf); Doctrine and Covenants 131:7–8; https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng&_r=1; Marion G. Romney, "The Worth of Souls," Ensign, November 1978, p. 13.; 8 Joe Smith (1 April 1842), "History of Joseph Smith," Times and Seasons, Vol. 3, p. 748. (https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/NCMP1820-1846/id/9825); , Gospel Principles, p. 11; Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:48, quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, 1976, p.132 9. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seer_stone_(Latter_Day_Saints) 10. Gospel Principles, p. 272,294; Doctrine and Covenants 76:81–88, 103–6, 109 (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76.84,105-106?lang=eng), 11. Mosiah 18:17 "And they were called the church of God, or the church of Christ, from that time forward." Alma 46:15 "...yea, all those who were true believes in Christ took upon them, gladly, the name of Christ, or Christians as they were called, because of their belief in Christ who should come." |
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