https://www.quotidiano.net/cronaca/diplomatici-russi-espulsi-1.3814385
General Mori: “Spies hidden in the embassies. But also among sportsmen and journalists”
The interview with the ex head of the Ros and director of the Sisde: “Hunt the enemies? Better to use them as sources”
by ALESSANDRO FARRUGGIA
Article Skripal case, dozens of Russian diplomats expelled from the EU and the USA. Italy
chasestwoArticle Over 100 Russian diplomats expelled from the EU and the USA, two from ItalyArticle Skripal case, the EU calls the ambassador to Moscow
Rome, March 28, 2018 - “The expulsions? They only take place when the political authority asks for it. And that’s fine. But if I still ran a service and I had identified a spy I would be very careful not to chase it. I would try to use it. To bring it to mine service, or otherwise if this is not possible I would keep it under control, occasionally ‘intoxicating’ it, or keeping myself ready to do it, with false news “. The general and prefect Mario Mori was head of the Ros and director of the Sisde from 2001 to 2006, and he knows of counterintelligence. And the news of the maxi-expulsion of Russian diplomats is not surprising.
Prefect Mori, when you say that the spies identified is better to use them, do you speak in principle or did you really do this in your time?
“Not so much in principle. Let’s say that if we singled out an agent from an adverse country, we Italians tried not to burn him. If we had expelled him we would have had an equal and opposite measure against one of ours and then it would have taken three or four years to find the new agent sent to replace the expelled one. A waste of time. So, they were expelled only if they really bored, otherwise they were cultivated or put under control, weakening them. Between us there was a joke. The difference between a bailiff and one of the services? The first dreams of arresting a terrorist chief, the second dreams of making him his source. “ (Laughs).
Is it true that certain embassies are teeming with spies?
“Let’s say that some embassies have more. However, the staff of certain embassies, when it arrives, is screened by the services. The novices are less suspicious, the others try to reconstruct their professional history, they feel the services are friendly to know if they are already in one of their databases, and often the hunt is fruitful. Of the 113 Russians expelled I believe that at most half was really a spy, especially in America where they expelled 60. But it was necessary to make a number ... “.
In addition to diplomats, where do spies hide?
“In many circles. Businessmen, sportsmen, artists, journalists. Everyone, if they can, use journalists because they have access to privileged sources and places of interest and while asking questions they do not raise suspicions. Obviously it is much easier to happen where the press is not free. “
How do you buy an enemy agent with money?
“It depends. You have to study the character well, if he has weaknesses. Money is an option. Other advantages also. Some services also use women, but much less than what is seen in the movies.”
How many secret agents from hostile countries operate in Italy?
“If I were still on duty I would say to you: classified information. Today I tell you: we say several dangerous ones. They manage hundreds of contacts”.
How long are they in the country?
“Even many years. Besides, if they have good coverage, why not?”.
Are there many Russians?
“Sure. Russia has always been very active. In the times of the cold war to get political-military information, today economic-military. In addition to classic activities they are very good at creating so-called ‘agents of influence’, often politicians who perhaps without realizing it they define guidelines favorable to Russia. The British are also very good at this. The British and the Russians are the crème de la crème “.
And the Americans?
“They have a lot of resources. They have a fabulous and rich electronic intelligence, but in terms of human intelligence they are less strong and sometimes naive. I remember that in the story of the Abu Omar rendition the CIA group went down to Milan in two four-star hotels and he used passports and personal credit cards. No cover names. But how do you do it, not even on Mickey Mouse .... “.
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NIKK...these people travel a lot everywhere...
HARvard spies?