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To: jeffersondem
During Lincoln’s War there were 16 states in the Union where slavery was legal - if you count West Virginia as a legitimate state, and if you honestly believe the southern states never left the Union.

This was my point. Lincoln's entire justification for starting that war was that the States were still in the Union and were simply in rebellion. He needed this claim to make legal his demands for soldiers and resources to put down the "rebellion" because the constitution gives him the power to suppress rebellion.

Of course this was clearly not a rebellion. It was an effort to attain independence. Lincoln just called it a "rebellion" to unlock the powers he needed to stop it.

933 posted on 01/22/2020 2:55:19 PM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no oither sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp

“Of course this was clearly not a rebellion. It was an effort to attain independence. Lincoln just called it a “rebellion” to unlock the powers he needed to stop it.”

I believe you are correct in every detail.


947 posted on 01/22/2020 3:28:17 PM PST by jeffersondem
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To: DiogenesLamp
Actually he was following precedent set by another President about 30 years earlier.

“To say that any state may at pleasure secede from the Union is to say that the United States are not a nation, because it would be a solecism to contend that any part of a nation might dissolve its connection with the other parts, to their injury or ruin, without committing any offense. Secession, like any other revolutionary act, may be morally justified by the extremity of oppression; but to call it a constitutional right is confounding the meaning of terms, and can only be done through gross error or to deceive those who are willing to assert a right, but would pause before they made a revolution or incur the penalties consequent on a failure.

Disunion by armed force is treason. Are you really ready to incur its guilt? If you are, on the heads of the instigators of the act be the dreadful consequences; on their heads be the dishonor, but on yours may fall the punishment. On your unhappy state will inevitably fall all the evils of the conflict you force upon the government of your country. It cannot accede to the mad project of disunion, of which you would be the first victims. Its first magistrate cannot, if he would, avoid the performance of his duty. . . .

Andrew Jackson Proclamation to the People of South Carolina 1832.

If you read all of the proclamation and then read Lincoln’s first inaugural it certainly appears he drew from it. Though he used much softer language.

953 posted on 01/22/2020 4:29:58 PM PST by OIFVeteran
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