Replies

>>Kalamata to OIFVeteran: “Slavery was a complicated issue that cannot be objectively cherry-picked.”
>>Joey wrote: “Naw, it’s not that “complicated”. As jeffersondem is so fond of reminding us, in 1776 slavery was lawful in every state. By 1860 it was still lawful in 15 of 33 states, at which point 11 slave-states seceded, they said, to protect slavery.”

If it was that simple, the Northern manufacturers that relied on crony capitalism would not have panicked because of the secession; nor would have Lincoln.

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>>Joey wrote: “During the Civil War when the Union army marched through a Confederate region, many slaves escaped their “masters” and sought protection behind Union lines, which Congress in 1861 began to provide.”

What actually happened to those escaped slaves, Joey?

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>>Joey wrote: “During the Civil War, when the Confederate army marched through a Union region, it grabbed up as many African-Americans — freed, slaves, men, women, children, whatever — as it could. These, if not put to work directly for the Confederate Army, were taken to Confederate cities for sale in slave markets. So what’s “complicated” about that?”

Do you have a source for that, Joey?

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>>Kalamata “One thing that IS history, according to these Lincolinites, is Lincoln clearly did NOT fight the war over slavery:”
>>Joey wrote: “Of course slavery was not the issue when Civil War started at Fort Sumter, but slavery soon after became an issue when “Beast” Butler ordered his troops not to return fugitive slaves to their Confederate “masters”.

How was that an issue, Joey?

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>>Joey wrote: “And already in the summer of 1861 Congress began passing laws protecting fugitives as “contraband of war” and preventing their return to Confederates.”

Like I said, the war was NOT about slavery.

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>>Joey wrote: “Throughout the Civil War slavery and emancipation became an ever bigger issue, especially as 200,000 black men joined Union Army colored regiments. Half of those were freedmen, the other half ex-slaves and there can be no doubting they “fought to free the slaves”.”

Earlier in the war, captured slaves became servants of the Northern companies and regiments that captured them — from one form of servitude, to another.

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>>Joey wrote: “After the war the Union ratified the 13th, 14th & 15th Amendments over objections by former Confederates and so there is no doubt that the very fears Fire Eaters seceded to prevent — the destruction of slavery — happened only because they lost the war.”

Joey’s sophistic obfuscation doesn’t alter the fact that the war had nothing to do with slavery.

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>>Joey wrote: “So it’s entirely fair to say that for Confederates it was a war for their independence to preserve slavery and for the Union it was a war to preserve the Union and destroy slavery.”

That may be considered “fair” to those who have a warped sense of history, and a love affair with a blood-thirsty tyrant named Lincoln; but not fair to any right-minded person.

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>>Joey wrote: “Very early in the war most Unionists came to understand that if they didn’t also destroy slavery, they could never fully preserve the Union.”

“Preserve the Union?” Do you not understand how crazy that sounds? Unions are voluntary, Joey.

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>>Joey wrote: “1862: The Vidette, a camp newspaper for Confederate Brig. Gen. John Hunt Morgan’s cavalry brigade. In one of the November, 1862 issues, the following appeared: “...any man who pretends to believe that this is not a war for the emancipation of the blacks, and that the whole course of the Yankee government has not only been directed to the abolition of slavery, but even to a stirring up of servile insurrections, is either a fool or a liar.”

The last part should read, “is either a fool, or a liar, or refuses to submit to the propaganda of blood-thirsty tyrants.”

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>>Kalamata wrote: “When the troops did “emancipate” the blacks, it was not necessarily out of compassion. Even in the Army blacks were second-class citizens:”
>>Joey wrote: “Sure, not everyone’s soul is full of saint-like “compassion”. But the fact remains that it soon became Union Army policy to free escaped slaves, while providing them with both shelter and paid work.”

The Union states were the most racist of the states, so it was natural to treat the freed slaves with the same disdain as freed blacks were treated in their home states.

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>>Joey wrote: “As for “second class citizens” it’s true that until final ratification of the 13th, 14th & 15th amendments (1870), ex-slaves were not legally full citizens. But they were already hugely better off than slaves.”

The policies of the “republican reconstructionists” led to generations of hatred between blacks and whites, which was not present prior to the Northern invasion.

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>>Kalamata wrote: “You can cherry-pick history till hell freezes over, but you will never erase the suppressive Northern Black Codes – the ones that were introduced by Republican “reconstructionists” into the South. Modern day black historians are becoming more and more aware that “Jim Crow” was an invention of the North, and not the South.”
>>Joey wrote: “No, I think everybody understands it was the Union which imposed Jim Crow on Southern states and that’s why, when Southerners negotiated withdrawal of the Union Army in 1876, ex-Confederates immediately began implementing the 13th, 14th & 15th Amendments, granted former slaves full voting rights and abolished both Jim Crow and the KKK! Riiiiight, so it’s all “Ape” Lincoln’s fault... yeh, that’s the ticket. </sarcasm>

Joey speaks with forked tongue.

Mr. Kalamata