Oh really? Perhaps it's because it's hard to grasp the nuances of constitutions that didn't exist? Or maybe they did. Sumter was built on territory deeded to the federal government by act of the South Carolina legislature. What changed that? Can you point me to a copy of the constitution that the independent country of South Carolina had adopted in December 1860? Can you point me to where that, or the eventual Confederate constitution, automatically made Sumter Confederate property?
I don’t have an agenda...
LOL! Of course you don't.
...and whether Fort Sumter was a tax collection point, or not, is inconsequential to the narrative. But if that is all you have to support your agenda, by all means, use it.
You claim Fort Sumter was a tax collection site. I'm just pointing out how illogical that claim is. Why would tariffs be collected at Fort Sumter?
Because he said so? Of course, Lincoln was an accomplished liar, so perhaps he was lying at the time. But since I am not smart enough to tell when he was lying, I assume Lincoln was always telling the truth. Therefore, I submit that Lincoln was a constitution-hating, abolition-hating, white supremacist, white separatist, crony-capitalist, power-hungry thug.
Perhaps it's your odd-ball interpretation rather than Lincoln's words?
There is no argument. The Constitution is crystal clear that the general government was authorized no power over state sovereignty and secession. Show me where the general government was authorized that power, and I will admit I am wrong. I won’t hold my breath.
Actually if there was no argument we wouldn't be having these amusing discussions.
Free (or limited duty) trade in the Southern States would have destroyed the crony-capitalist system adopted by the Lincoln’s Whig party.
How?
That conversation was alluded to throughout Lincoln’s political career, and forcefully emphasized during his first inaugural address.
LOL! No it wasn't.
Why must you resort to straw men? Do you find it impossible to justify Lincoln’s tyranny, otherwise?
Straw men or hypocrisy? You condemn what you say is Lincoln's tyranny but complete ignore tyranny on the part of Davis. Tyranny seems to be completely OK with you so long and it's your side doing it.
Those were the grievances. Look them up.
I'm looking for facts, not grievances. What were the British tariff rates on U.S. cotton imports?
Only when they lie.
LOL! Lie? Because you say so?
No.
Why not? How would they have avoided it?
Of course it was. The economic policies of the Confederate Constitution are the most economically sound polices ever comprised. Naturally the crony-capitalist Lincolnites would abhor them.
The Confederate constitution itself could claim almost anything but when the government ignored it at will then it isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
You mean, not if you are a Lincolnite, rather than a constitutionalist.
Which do you claim to be?
Can you point to me the part of the Constitution, or the law of nations, that requires a nation to retain a military garrison of a belligerent nation within its borders?
The states offered to compensate the federal government for the forts and other federal buildings within its borders, but the warmonger, Lincoln, refused to accept it.
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>>Kalamata wrote: "...and whether Fort Sumter was a tax collection point, or not, is inconsequential to the narrative. But if that is all you have to support your agenda, by all means, use it."
>>DoodleDawg wrote: "You claim Fort Sumter was a tax collection site. I'm just pointing out how illogical that claim is. Why would tariffs be collected at Fort Sumter?"
It wasn't illogical at all. In fact, the move from the Custom House to a fort had been recommended by one of Buchanan's cabinent members -- his Secretary of State:
"It has been my decided opinion, which for some time past I have urged at various meetings of the Cabinet, that additional troops should be sent to reinforce the forts in the harbor of Charleston, with a view to their better defence should they be attacked, and that an armed vessel should likewise be ordered there, to aid, if necessary, in the defence, and also, should it be required, in the collection of the revenue; and it is yet my opinion that these measures should be adopted without the least delay. I have likewise urged the expediency of immediately removing the Custom House at Charleston to one of the forts in the port, and of making arrangements for the collection of the duties there by having a Collector and other officers ready to act when necessary, so that when the office may become vacant, the proper authority may be there to collect the duties on the part of the United States. I continue to think that these arrangements should be immediately made. While the right and the responsibility of deciding belong to you, it is very desirable that at this perilous juncture there should be, as far as possible, unanimity in your Councils, with a view to safe and efficient action.
"I have therefore felt it my duty to tender you my resignation of the office of Secretary of State, and to ask your permission to retire from that official association with yourself and the members of your Cabinet which I have enjoyed during almost four years without the occurrence of a single incident to interrupt the personal intercourse which has so happily existed.
[General Lewis Cass to John Bassett Moore, "The Works of James Buchanan Vol 11." J. B. Lippencott & Co., 1910, pp.57-58]
Many historians must assume that move actually took place, but I can find no record of it.
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>>Kalamata wrote: "Because he said so? Of course, Lincoln was an accomplished liar, so perhaps he was lying at the time. But since I am not smart enough to tell when he was lying, I assume Lincoln was always telling the truth. Therefore, I submit that Lincoln was a constitution-hating, abolition-hating, white supremacist, white separatist, crony-capitalist, power-hungry thug."
>>DoodleDawg wrote: "Perhaps it's your odd-ball interpretation rather than Lincoln's words?"
Show me what you are talking about.
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>>Kalamata wrote: "There is no argument. The Constitution is crystal clear that the general government was authorized no power over state sovereignty and secession. Show me where the general government was authorized that power, and I will admit I am wrong. I won’t hold my breath."
>>DoodleDawg wrote: "Actually if there was no argument we wouldn't be having these amusing discussions."
If you understood the legal document called the Constitution of the United States, and the purpose of it, you would despise Lincoln; that is, unless you are a gangster.
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>>Kalamata wrote: "Free (or limited duty) trade in the Southern States would have destroyed the crony-capitalist system adopted by the Lincoln’s Whig party."
>>DoodleDawg wrote: "How?"
The party was established on a principle of corporate welfare, and protective tariffs was the chief source of income.
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>>Kalamata wrote: "That conversation was alluded to throughout Lincoln’s political career, and forcefully emphasized during his first inaugural address."
>>DoodleDawg wrote: "LOL! No it wasn't."
I have had better conversations with a mute.
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>>Kalamata wrote: "Why must you resort to straw men? Do you find it impossible to justify Lincoln’s tyranny, otherwise?"
>>DoodleDawg wrote: "Straw men or hypocrisy? You condemn what you say is Lincoln's tyranny but complete ignore tyranny on the part of Davis. Tyranny seems to be completely OK with you so long and it's your side doing it."
Davis didn't commit treason against the United States and destroy the Constitution. Lincoln did.
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>>Kalamata wrote: "Those were the grievances. Look them up."
>>DoodleDawg wrote: "I'm looking for facts, not grievances. What were the British tariff rates on U.S. cotton imports?"
The U.S. didn't import cotton during that time, that I am aware of. Are you referring to finished cotton goods; and, if so, for what purpose?
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>>Kalamata wrote: "Of course it was. The economic policies of the Confederate Constitution are the most economically sound polices ever comprised. Naturally the crony-capitalist Lincolnites would abhor them."
>>DoodleDawg wrote: "The Confederate constitution itself could claim almost anything but when the government ignored it at will then it isn't worth the paper it's printed on."
You need to get out more.
Mr. Kalamata