Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

To: DiogenesLamp; BroJoeK; jeffersondem; rockrr; Bull Snipe; HandyDandy; central_va
>>BroJoeK wrote: "In short, Confederates represented an existential economic, political and military threat to the United States,"
>>DiogenesLamp wrote: "Not a military threat, but definitely an economic and political threat. They would have eventually taken away New York's wealth and power, and the Empire City of the Empire state was never going to allow that to happen. That is why the Empire City of the Empire state is still running Washington DC to this very day."

I believe the city of New York was ready to secede along with the Southern States:

"With our aggrieved brethren of the Slave States, we have friendly relations and a common sympathy. We have not participated in the warfare upon their constitutional rights or their domestic institutions. While other portions of our State have unfortunately been imbued with the fanatical spirit which actuates a portion of the people of New England, the city of New York has unfalteringly preserved the integrity of its principles of adherence to the compromises of the Constitution and the equal rights of the people of all the States. We have respected the local interests of every section, at no time oppressing, but all the while aiding in the development of the resources of the whole country. Our ships have penetrated to every clime, and so have New York capital, energy and enterprise found their way to every State, and, indeed, to almost every county and town of the American Union. If we have derived sustenance from the Union, so have we in return disseminated blessings for the common benefit of all. Therefore, New York has a right to expect, and should endeavor to preserve a continuance of uninterrupted intercourse with every section."

"It is, however, folly to disguise the fact that, judging from the past, New York may have more cause of apprehension from the aggressive legislation of our own State than from external dangers. We have already largely suffered from this cause. For the past five years, our interests and corporate rights have been repeatedly trampled upon. Being an integral portion of the State, it has been assumed, and in effect tacitly admitted on our part by nonresistance, that all political and governmental power over us rested in the State Legislature. Even the common right of taxing ourselves for our own government, has been yielded, and we are not permitted to do so without this authority."

[Fernando Wood, "Mayor Wood's Recommendation of the Secession of New York City." Teaching American History, Jan 6, 1861]

Apparently, the good Mayor promoted the doctrine of "working together as a team." Too bad the Northern merchants didn't agree. Our nation would have been both prosperous, and free.

Mr. Kalamata

1,466 posted on 02/05/2020 7:34:22 PM PST by Kalamata (BIBLE RESEARCH TOOLS: http://bibleresearchtools.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1424 | View Replies ]


To: Kalamata; BroJoeK

However, the state of New York stood firmly for the Union.

ANTI-SECESSION RESOLUTIONS OF THE NEW YORK LEGISLATURE
Passed by the New York State Assembly, 11 January 1861
[Text located by Sean Rogers, Furman University. Transcribed by Lloyd Benson from the New York Times, 12 January 1861]

Whereas, The insurgent State of South Carolina, after seizing the Post-offices, Custom-House, moneys and fortifications of the Federal Government, has, by firing into a vessel ordered by the Government to convey troops and provisions to Fort Sumter, virtually declared war; and

Whereas, The forts and property of the United States Government in Georgia, Alabama, and Louisiana have been unlawfully seized, with hostile intentions; and

Whereas, Their Senators in Congress avow and maintain their treasonable acts; therefore,

Resolved, (if the Senate concur,) That the Legislature of New York is profoundly impressed with the value of the Union, and determined to preserve it unimpaired; that it greets with joy the recent firm, dignified and patriotic Special Message of the President of the United States, and that we tender to him through the Chief Magistrate of our own State, whatever aid in men and money may be required to enable him to enforce the laws and uphold the authority of the Federal Government; and that, in the defence of the Union, which has conferred prosperity and happiness upon the American people, renewing the pledge given and redeemed by our fathers, we are ready to devote our fortunes, our lives, and our sacred honor.

Resolved, (if the Senate concur,) That the Union-loving citizens and representatives of Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Kentucky, Missouri, and Tennessee, who labor with devoted courage and patriotism to withhold their States from the vortex of secession, are entitled to the gratitude and admiration of the whole people.

Resolved, (if the Senate concur,) That the Government be respectfully requested to forward, forthwith, copies of the foregoing resolutions to the President of the Nation, and the Governors of all the States of the Union.


1,469 posted on 02/06/2020 3:44:38 AM PST by OIFVeteran
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1466 | View Replies ]

To: Kalamata
"With our aggrieved brethren of the Slave States, we have friendly relations and a common sympathy. We have not participated in the warfare upon their constitutional rights or their domestic institutions."

New York was making a lot of money off of slave produced goods, and there were a lot of New Yorkers that supported the Southern states, but the Plutocrats, those behind the scenes businessmen of power, recognized the threat that direct Southern trade with Europe would pose for them.

The total amount of money involved for the Southern trade was something like 200-230 million, and the loss of this money stream would have seriously hurt New York's economic picture, but the greater loss by far would have been from low-tariffed European goods displacing domestic markets for North Eastern manufacturers.

The Mississippi river would have provided access for thousands of cheaper and better quality goods from Europe to flood through the Mid West and border states. The railroads would lose income, the great lakes shipping would lose income, and the people in the North producing these goods would have lost income.

Economic interests of states would have shifted from a New York centric model to a New Orleans centric model, and their political orbits would have shifted towards the confederacy.

People focus on "tariffs" which are just the tip of the iceberg, and most people are ignorant of the larger economic patters that would have developed all to the detriment of the powerful people in the North during that era.

1,476 posted on 02/06/2020 6:53:57 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no oither sovereignty."/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1466 | View Replies ]

To: Kalamata; BroJoeK

Found the whole memo President Jackson sent to his secretary of war during the nullification crisis. Thinks it puts to rest your mistaken beliefs that Jackson would not have followed through with his statements that he would use armed force to suppress South Carolina “secession.”

TO SECRETARY CASS.
Washington, December 17, 1832.

confidential

My D’r sir, If I can judge from the signs of the times Nullification, and secession, or in the language of truth, disunion, is gaining strength, we must be prepared to act with promptness, and crush the monster in its cradle before it matures to manhood. We must be prepared for the crisis. The moment that we are informed that the Legislature of So Carolina has passed laws to carry her rebellious ordinance into effect, which I expect tomorrow we must be prepared to act. Tenders of service is coming to me daily and from Newyork, we can send to the bay of charleston with steamers such number of troops as we may please to order, in four days.

We will want three divisions of artillery, each composed of nines, twelves, and Eighteen pounders, one for the East, one for the west, and one for the center divisions. How many of these calibers, are ready for field service How many musketts with their compleat equipments are ready for service. How many swords and pistols and what quantity of fixed ammunition for dragoons, Brass pieces for the field, how many, and what caliber. At as early a day as possible, I wish a report from the ordinance Department, on this subject, stating with precision, how many peaces of artillery of the caliber, are ready for the field, how many good musketts etc. etc., and at what place in deposit.

yrs. respectfully
Andrew Jackson


1,496 posted on 02/06/2020 3:15:11 PM PST by OIFVeteran
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1466 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson