Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

To: N. Theknow; Yogafist; caww; Guenevere; Neidermeyer; BEJ; CurlyDave; wjcsux; blueunicorn6; ...
N. Theknow,

This thread is about 3 months old, but I am posting in the hope that you could give an update about your RV decision.

I read all the responses, and there was some very sage advice given. My wife and I were recently considering an RV as well, and after much research, many conversations, we have decided to not purchase one at this time. IF we decided to purchase one at all, we were leaning towards a Class B or what is known as a Class B+, and I'll give you my reason for that. But first, I wanted to focus on what two posters in particular said, and echo my endorsement of what they said. In my opinion, Freepers alloysteel and semantic gave the most sound advice on the thread. Their experience echoed what we found to be true for many previous and current RV owners.

If you still thinking of purchasing and RV, please watch this invest 18 minutes of time and watch this video from a lawyer in Michigan who specializes in lemon law and warranty legal issues. His name is Steven Lehto, and he is a straight shooter.

Don't Buy an RV

Image result for don't buy an RV steve lehto

He has done a couple of follow up videos. His main point is that people will and can still buy them, but they should be informed about several issues.

- the quality of most RVs built today is atrocious

- it is not uncommon for new owners of RVs to discover dozens and dozens of problems, and for their RV to be in the shop for 5, 6, 9, or more months for the first year they own it

- there are few state lemon laws, and no national lemon law that protect RV buyers as they do with cars and trucks, the manufacturers know this, and they take full advantage

- a new RV does not = "Trouble Free." An expensive RV does not = "I Paid More, So I Get Better Quality."

- pay an independent RV inspector to inspect the unit BEFORE you buy or sign the dotted line, and NEVER pay the dealer for a "mandatory" inspection that they say they will do (and charge you up to $2,000 for)

What I have also discovered is that the maintenance of RVs (using the dealer or the warranty process) is a minefield for owners. Most RV manufacturers are pushing out quickly built, low quality junk. They don't care how many problems these units have. The dealers don't have the technicians or the maintenance bays they need to work on all the defect units, and they are not paid for the warranty work from the manufacturer - and the poor RV owner is caught in the middle. Not to mention the fact that it is going to take you MONTHS to get a maintenance appointment to even diagnose your issues, then you will need another appointment to get it fixed, after they order parts. The RV technician training and certification system is an absolute joke for most of the dealerships, and most don't properly diagnose issues very well. Often, they will throw new parts at a problem, which won't fix the underlying issues.

What Freeper outofsalt said about Depreciation is very, very true. You got a lot of advice about buy "lightly used." Yes, that is better. A new RV will depreciate about 25% - 30% for driving it home, and after 3 years will depreciate further. But even if you buy one after 3 years, the RV has not finished depreciating. This is how many, many RV owners who finance end up being upside down on loans. RVs are expensive, and not everyone can afford to plunk down 6 figures. So they get 8, 10, 12, 15, or 20 year loans. I read a story about an older couple who bought a $167,000 Class A new, and after many years, the husband died. She still owed about $70,000 on it, but it was worth about $33,000 on a good day. She said, "Well, I'll just sell it." Nope. She didn't have the title. Her only "solution" was a bridge loan, which comes with a whole host of other problems I won't go into here. A RV tech told me that "Many RVs are only good for sawdust and scrap aluminum after 6-7 years."

I realize there are exceptions. Some RVs are built better, and Freeper buzz_85 mentioned Newmar, Tiffin or Winnebago as being better built. That is true. Airstream is a good brand as well, although they got out of the Class A business and now only build travel trailers. Today, 83% of all RVs are owned by only 2 companies, and those RVs are made very, very cheaply and poorly. They may look great on the lot, but look closer. Cardboard and staples. Things that fall off. Rubber roofs that bubble up after only a few years and leak. Slides that jam at the drop of a hat and then leak. On and on.

Image result for rv delamination

RV sidewall delamination

You may have heard this advice: "RVs are like taking your home and subjecting it to a rolling earthquake and hurricane force winds, so you can expect things to break." Yes, that is somewhat true. Plumbing can get out of whack, and things can break. But the underlying truth is that most RVs made today are of such low quality that they will also break sitting in a heated aircraft hanger.

A Freeper on another RV thread said he did RV financing. He admitted they fell apart is no time, but he recommended buying the "Extended 6 Year Warranty." I don't recommend this - at all.

There is also not "one warranty" on the RV. If you buy a new one, expect to get a cardboard box with many books of individual warranties. And they all come with "conditions."

I promised you my thoughts on the Class B or Class B+. Of all the RVs we looked at, these seemed to have the least amount of maintenance and quality issue. Not say they don't have them, just that they have the least amount (except for very high end RVs). Class Bs are built on a Mercedes Sprint chassis, or on a Ford or Dodge. They can be diesel or gas. The RV manufacturer then builds the RV inside that van structure. This take a lot of time and more custom building. Hence, Class Bs are very expensive. They are also the smallest RVs (compared to Class As, Class Cs, 5th wheels, etc.) This fact stumps new RV tire kickers, but that's the way it is. Many potential RV owners say the Class B is too small for them, and that may be true. All things are trade offs.

Other things to consider about the RV lifestyle:

- driving them can be terrifying (not always, but for some people this is a massive issue)

- sewage: it comes with RVing, and if it bothers you, then RVs may not be for you

- RV parks are becoming increasingly crowded, and reserving spots is getting more difficult. There are alternatives, like boon-dock camping on BLM land, and there are also state parks, but it's something to consider

- parking at WalMarts is getting more difficult, because local ordinances are being passed in some place to tamp down on RVs parking there, and some WalMart managers have had bad experiences with the bad apples

Sorry this was so long, but thought I would share some of what I learned. I am still learning. Again, we may consider a class B or B+ in the future. This one was recommended by a friend:

Tiffin Class B Wayfarer 24 TW

Image result for tiffin class b

Other Class Bs with better reputation for quality are Pleasure Way, Airstream, and Leisure Travel.

For high quality Class As, we have heard better things about Tiffin or Newmar.

But if you decide to get an RV, the best class and type is up to you. Just do a lot of research.

All the best, and good luck.

138 posted on 06/18/2019 6:59:56 AM PDT by SkyPilot (("I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: SkyPilot

Very nice summary!


139 posted on 06/18/2019 7:05:01 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 138 | View Replies ]

To: SkyPilot
Very nice summary - you covered all the main issues. My advice for anyone still interested is to consider a blended method. By that, I mean a combination of lodges, tent camping and RVing. Lodges and tent camping are easy, no brainers, so I'll focus on the RV side.

Perhaps the core, fundamental problem with RVs is that the coaches are custom built. This poses at least two problems: their own respective (lack of) quality and the fact they are then not subject to federal/state vehicle quality control standards. The solution is to get a stripped cargo van, whether it be a Transit, Sprinter or similar. This solves the problem of quality because they are unit body constructed/welded, and of course are sold under strict consumer & warranty standards. A 3rd factor would be that they are small/light enough to be serviced by either dealers or outside mechanics.

OK, so now that you have your stripped, white Transit van, what are you going to do with it? Well, you can throw your tent camping gear in it for one: sleeping bags, tent, stove, wash basin, pop up tent, chairs, bikes and what-not. That's it? No, that's not it - here's where the real beauty lies, especially if you are at all handy or like construction projects.

The first order of business is to put in a roof vent. Second is a solar panel. Third is some elementary electrical wiring - don't worry, this business has become so large (thank #vanlife) there are tons of plug & play kits available. Lacking that, there is now a very nice stable of qualified techs who do this for a living. Ok, so now you have a basic, yet very functional 12 volt solar system, complete with monitor, converter, battery (pack), etc.

Now what? Next is insulation and paneling. This is actually really easy, and you can choose/design any decor you like. Once that's finished, you have a nicely laid out interior with basic 12VDC electrical capabilities. (That is, can run LED lighting as well as USB re-charging.)

Last are the amenities, and once again there are tons of kits available, instruction videos and/or outside contractors who know how to do this. You don't want to go crazy, you don't want them hacking at metal - all you need is some kind of fold-out coach/bed, a simple counter with wash basis, and some cabinets. You can always modify via plug+play as you go. Last, get a simple marine toilet and put it in the corner of the van. Get used to going #2 in park/store/restaurant/health club toilet facilities, and keep it for mid-night #1.

So, let's review what we have: we have a super reliable, go anywhere, take anywhere stealth 'work van' that doesn't call attention to itself. If the weather is nice and the campgrounds are pleasant, you may choose to decide to set up the tent and other outdoor camping gear. If the weather is miserable, and/or you're in the mood for being indoors, spring for lodging. And when you're travelling, want to crash, there isn't availability, or you just want to chill on the side of the road overlooking a pretty vista, then you have your RV.

The name of the game is convenience, flexibility, adaptability and a worry/stress free operating vehicle that drives almost like your regular passenger car. And maybe the best part of the experience? There are lots and lots of other people doing just this - it's almost like a secret club of cognoscenti. Now, they will most likely be (much) younger, a bit liberal (that's natural) and not as financially well off, but it is a bit of a club.

And if you don't like constant travel and/or RVing and want to give it up? Total loss may be 5k, outer range $10k. No one will pay market for your upgrades, but at the end of the day, it's still a work van which has its own built in demand and market pricing structure.

140 posted on 06/18/2019 7:31:29 AM PDT by semantic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 138 | View Replies ]

To: SkyPilot

We had an RV for 9 years....( a Class Super C....and then a Tiffin Class A)

For the most part, we don’t regret it.......we enjoyed good usage overall.....
...camping with family, grandchild

Our favorite trip was out West......Yellowstone....Monument Valley.....Utah....New Mexico, etc.......Colorado.......Beautiful

( and yes, my husband was on the side of the road a few times fixing something).......
But our ‘season for RV’ing’ came to an end and we bought a cabin in the mountains

I do see your point......and my husband and I certainly agree with your decision


142 posted on 06/18/2019 7:42:16 AM PDT by Guenevere
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 138 | View Replies ]

To: SkyPilot

Very interesting info. I’m curious how you found this from 3 months ago?


143 posted on 06/18/2019 8:19:15 AM PDT by outofsalt (If history teaches us anything, it's that history rarely teaches anything.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 138 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson