Ayers certainly knows. The other guy I only know anything about due to massive research done and posted on FR.
The babysitters family tree is where the researchers should have been looking, but nobody did.
https://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=dowfam3&id=IA233284
https://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=dowfam3&id=IG233285
bye, I’m outa here