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To: Mrs. Don-o
Please do not ignore the contexts provided, plus the many, many other readings in Scripture which firmly promise that all of our thoughts, words, and deeds will be judged --- that is, we will be answerable for them, both the saved and the lost.--- ,

You have provided no context. You've pulled passages OUT of context which you do a great deal and then try to read back into them something that isn't there.

Go back and read John...especially 3, 6 and 10.

I'm not speaking here of Eternal Damnation or Eternal life, because the latter is total gift and total grace, nothing we could ever pay for, earn or merit.

You would not know that from discussions or readings with or on Roman Catholicism.

Everything I've read on Roman Catholicism, including Rome's own writings, places an emphasis on gotta do, gotta do, gotta do and as long as the RC is devoted to Mary they hope she will put in a good word for them and then hope they might have salvation.

None of which is supported by the New Testament.

If temporal suffering were unjust, we would have to say that the natural, logical and merited consequences of sin were unjust, and that God is unjust for imposing them. This is obviously a wrong conclusion.

Let me be clear about this:

Once a believer in Christ dies it's either Heaven or Hell....no in between. No layover in purgatory or limbo (if Rome still has limbo).

Your position regarding the "temporal" is saying there is punishment in purgatory....which again neither are Biblical concepts.

Now, are there earthly consequences for our sins? You betcha. If you're caught stealing you may go to jail.

But once you die.....you are no longer under judgment per what Christ told Nicodemus.

336 posted on 12/18/2018 5:21:24 AM PST by ealgeone (SCRIPTURE DOES NOT CHANGE! However, Roman Catholicism has, does, and will change.)
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To: ealgeone
There are two distinguishable meanings of the phrase "under judgment." For clarity, I'll call them I and II.

Under Judgment 1: meaning under God's wrath, headed for hell, no hope, no exit; vs. Under Judgment II meaning glory-bound, but still answerable for your own thoughts, words and deeds. ALL of them.

"But I say to you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."
(Matthew 12:36)

Dismas exemplifies Judgment II. Dismas said that his crucifixion was a just punishment, it was due to him because of his sins. Jesus apparently agreed, because he did not deny what Dismas said, AND he did not get him down from the cross. Dismas, though saved, still had to suffer what was due to him because of his sins.

Dismas took up his cross.

So do we all. Or else, where's the justice? Jesus said we cannot be His disciples unless we take up our cross.


Think again of God's mercy, which is enacted through His justice; and His justice, which is enacted through His mercy. In God, justice and mercy are not opposites or antagonists.

Mercy and truth have met each other:
justice and peace have kissed.
Psalm 85:10

It is impossible that they should be antagonists: that mercy would annihilate justice, as if it were a flawed thing. Justice is not a mean or flawed or inferior thing. It is the foundation of His throne.

Facing the reality that all of us will receive recompense from God for our sins, we accept His justice. This makes the mercy all the greater because in the end it totally triumphs. It "superabounds".

"And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds."
Psalm 62:12

"You know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as your reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. Whoever does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism. Colossians 3:24-25

"And loving-kindness is Yours, O Lord, for You recompense a man according to his work."
Proverbs 24:12

God's mercy and justice work together and triumph totally: In His justice, God recognizes our sin and the need of its reparation, while, in His mercy, He showers upon us the grace and the power to repent and to make reparation.

Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wants to come with Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me."
Think of Dismas again.

He bears the the cross --- as Jesus said we must do, or we cannot be His disciples -- and then he is borne up to Heaven in Jesus' arms, in triumph! As we shall do!

May Christ, our matchless Savior, be glorified forever!

340 posted on 12/18/2018 1:04:50 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Justice and Judgment are the foundation of His throne." - Psalm 89:14)
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