Posted on 12/15/2018 4:10:34 AM PST by sparklite2
Until you can differentiate between the two it's hard to have a conversation with you.
Have you had any serious Biblical training? I'm serious when I ask this.
Where is this flippin' transcipt?
To quote the meme lady, "Ain't nobody got time fo' dat."
You keep equating temporal with earthly examples by holding up the thief on the cross as your example.
Dismas exemplifies Judgment II. Dismas said that his crucifixion was a just punishment, it was due to him because of his sins. Jesus apparently agreed, because he did not deny what Dismas said, AND he did not get him down from the cross. Dismas, though saved, still had to suffer what was due to him because of his sins.
Your attempt to equate the words of Christ, take up your cross, with Dismas again shows your lack of understanding on how to properly handle the word.
Honestly...what Biblical training have you had? If any?
placemarker
I will reproduce Ed Peters' commnts, and then Fr. LaCuesta's funral homicide for the suicided youth. See for yourself.
Ed Peters' Comment
Note, first, how short this homily is. Perfectly in line with canonical and liturgical norms for such cases. More importantly, and flatly contrary to how LaCuesta’s homily has been portrayed in the media, I don’t see Hell mentioned anywhere, anywhere, nor any language that relegates this poor young man thereto, and instead I see clarion reminders of the mercy of Christ recited at least half-a-dozen times.
I see, too, the moral gravity of suicide—itself approaching epidemic proportions among Americans today—directly acknowledged and fears about its eternal consequences candidly admitted, but I also see consoling references to how much more God knows about one’s life than do those even closest to him and how much that deeper, likely mitigating, divine knowledge leaves the rest of us mortals, grieving a suicide, room for real hope.
So here's Fr.LaCuesta's homily. Names redacted at source, which is Donald McClarey's blog, The American Catholic
It is with great difficulty that I stand before you knowing the pain and anguish you are going through. But I am aware, as well, that I am only a humble, unworthy mouthpiece. I ask God to use my words to bring the light, comfort and healing you need.
Is there any hope to offer in this moment? Must we only speak of our profound grief , our indescribable sorrow , even our anger and confusion at how such a thing could have happened? Is there any word from God that might break into our darkness like a ray of light?
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
If we Christians are right in believing that salvation belongs to Jesus Christ, that it does not come from us -- and that our hand cannot stop what God allows for us, then yes , there is hope in eternity even for those who take their own lives.
Having said that, I think that we must not call what is bad good, what is wrong right. Because we are Christians, we mus t say what we know is the truth – that taking your own life is against God who made us and against everyone who loves us .
Our lives are not our own. They are not ours to do with as we please. God gave us life, and we are to be good stewards of that gift for as long as God permits.
The finality of suicide makes this all the worse. You cannot make things right again. Neither can [REDACTED] .
And this is much of the pain of it all. Things are left unresolved, even if it felt to [REDACTED] like this was the only way to resolve things. You want to turn the clock back and say, " Please don't give up. We can work through this pain tog e ther . "
But no w you will have to work through this pain by yourselves, or with those close to you now who will need to lean on you even as you lean on them.
On most people's mind, however, especially of us who call ourselves Christians, on our minds as we sit in this place is: Can God forgive and heal this?
Yes, God CAN forgive even the taking of one's own life. In fact, God awaits us with his mercy, with ever open arms. Sacred Scripture says clearly: God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us (Romans 5:8). God's abiding mercy is what sets us to ask for it.
Although God doesn't dangle his mercy like a carrot , waiting for us to ask for it in order to receive it, we do have to believe in our hearts, express wi th our words, and show in our actions – that it is always there.
God wants nothing but our salvation but he will never force himself on us, he will not save us without us. That's how much he loves us. Because ofthe all - embracing sacrifice of Christ on the cross God can have mercy on any sin.
Yes , because of his mercy, God can forgive suicide and heal what has been broken. Because God is merciful he makes allowance for the spiritual, mental, and emotional despair that leads to suicide. Go d is able to read the heart, to know the whole truth of a person's life, and ther eby to pass sentence with mercy.
God knows something we must discipline o urselves to do in these moments – he knows not to judge a person's entire life on the basis of the worst and last choice the person made. God can look at the totality of a human being's life and celebrate all the good that came from it, even while taking seriously the tragic choice that en ded everything.
And then he shows his mercy and love in ways beyond our limited understanding. Nothing can separate us from the love of God, the great St. Paul assures us (in that Reading we just listened to). Nothing – including suicide.
I will reproduce Ed Peters' commnts, and then Fr. LaCuesta's funral homicide for the suicided youth. See for yourself.
Ed Peters' Comment
Note, first, how short this homily is. Perfectly in line with canonical and liturgical norms for such cases. More importantly, and flatly contrary to how LaCuesta’s homily has been portrayed in the media, I don’t see Hell mentioned anywhere, anywhere, nor any language that relegates this poor young man thereto, and instead I see clarion reminders of the mercy of Christ recited at least half-a-dozen times.
I see, too, the moral gravity of suicide—itself approaching epidemic proportions among Americans today—directly acknowledged and fears about its eternal consequences candidly admitted, but I also see consoling references to how much more God knows about one’s life than do those even closest to him and how much that deeper, likely mitigating, divine knowledge leaves the rest of us mortals, grieving a suicide, room for real hope.
So here's Fr.LaCuesta's homily. Names redacted at source, which is Donald McClarey's blog, The American Catholic
It is with great difficulty that I stand before you knowing the pain and anguish you are going through. But I am aware, as well, that I am only a humble, unworthy mouthpiece. I ask God to use my words to bring the light, comfort and healing you need.
Is there any hope to offer in this moment? Must we only speak of our profound grief , our indescribable sorrow , even our anger and confusion at how such a thing could have happened? Is there any word from God that might break into our darkness like a ray of light?
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
If we Christians are right in believing that salvation belongs to Jesus Christ, that it does not come from us -- and that our hand cannot stop what God allows for us, then yes , there is hope in eternity even for those who take their own lives.
Having said that, I think that we must not call what is bad good, what is wrong right. Because we are Christians, we mus t say what we know is the truth – that taking your own life is against God who made us and against everyone who loves us .
Our lives are not our own. They are not ours to do with as we please. God gave us life, and we are to be good stewards of that gift for as long as God permits.
The finality of suicide makes this all the worse. You cannot make things right again. Neither can [REDACTED] .
And this is much of the pain of it all. Things are left unresolved, even if it felt to [REDACTED] like this was the only way to resolve things. You want to turn the clock back and say, " Please don't give up. We can work through this pain tog e ther . "
But no w you will have to work through this pain by yourselves, or with those close to you now who will need to lean on you even as you lean on them.
On most people's mind, however, especially of us who call ourselves Christians, on our minds as we sit in this place is: Can God forgive and heal this?
Yes, God CAN forgive even the taking of one's own life. In fact, God awaits us with his mercy, with ever open arms. Sacred Scripture says clearly: God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us (Romans 5:8). God's abiding mercy is what sets us to ask for it.
Although God doesn't dangle his mercy like a carrot , waiting for us to ask for it in order to receive it, we do have to believe in our hearts, express wi th our words, and show in our actions – that it is always there.
God wants nothing but our salvation but he will never force himself on us, he will not save us without us. That's how much he loves us. Because ofthe all - embracing sacrifice of Christ on the cross God can have mercy on any sin.
Yes , because of his mercy, God can forgive suicide and heal what has been broken. Because God is merciful he makes allowance for the spiritual, mental, and emotional despair that leads to suicide. Go d is able to read the heart, to know the whole truth of a person's life, and ther eby to pass sentence with mercy.
God knows something we must discipline o urselves to do in these moments – he knows not to judge a person's entire life on the basis of the worst and last choice the person made. God can look at the totality of a human being's life and celebrate all the good that came from it, even while taking seriously the tragic choice that en ded everything.
And then he shows his mercy and love in ways beyond our limited understanding. Nothing can separate us from the love of God, the great St. Paul assures us (in that Reading we just listened to). Nothing – including suicide.
Sounds like his comments were appropriate (?) and comforting but more importantly, what Jesus would have said.
What do these people want? In their grieving, do they want the priest to say what their child did was ok, right, not a sin? Do they want the priest to validate them as parents?
Suicide is awful. Especially for the people left to deal with it. There’s no way to prevent it. And it leaves the survivors with guilt they’re trying to understand where no understanding is possible.
It’s called the epitome of selfish acts because it leaves the survivors with such guilt even though nothing they could have done would have prevented it.
So the parents, in their grief to blame someone when they can’t fathom blaming themselves (nor should they), blame the person giving a homily they can’t in their grief understand. When the only one to blame is the person who took his own life.
Suicide is horrific. It’s the ultimate selfish (albeit due to mental illness) act. It leaves the survivors with guilt that can’t be appeased because the guilt isn’t for anything they did or didn’t do. It’s guilt for not noticing something, or guilt for being happy, or guilt for living life all while someone was mentally ill or just “unhappy or depressed or suffering.”
And you can’t canonize those who commit suicide because it makes it something ok to do which it isn’t.
Nothing this priest said is wrong. But, we’re living in a time where it’s wrong.
Thanks-—I had just finished reading it——and is not not the least bit offensive as far as I’m concerned.
(And I have had a suicide in the family.)
.
I’d consider that an admirable job of dealing with a very difficult situation.
I don’t get what the family’s complaint is.
Thanks for posting that so we can see for ourselves.
I will reproduce Ed Peters' commnts, and then Fr. LaCuesta's funral homicide for the suicided youth. See for yourself.
Ed Peters' Comment
Note, first, how short this homily is. Perfectly in line with canonical and liturgical norms for such cases. More importantly, and flatly contrary to how LaCuesta’s homily has been portrayed in the media, I don’t see Hell mentioned anywhere, anywhere, nor any language that relegates this poor young man thereto, and instead I see clarion reminders of the mercy of Christ recited at least half-a-dozen times.
I see, too, the moral gravity of suicide—itself approaching epidemic proportions among Americans today—directly acknowledged and fears about its eternal consequences candidly admitted, but I also see consoling references to how much more God knows about one’s life than do those even closest to him and how much that deeper, likely mitigating, divine knowledge leaves the rest of us mortals, grieving a suicide, room for real hope.
So here's Fr.LaCuesta's homily. Names redacted at source, which is Donald McClarey's blog, The American Catholic
It is with great difficulty that I stand before you knowing the pain and anguish you are going through. But I am aware, as well, that I am only a humble, unworthy mouthpiece. I ask God to use my words to bring the light, comfort and healing you need.
Is there any hope to offer in this moment? Must we only speak of our profound grief , our indescribable sorrow , even our anger and confusion at how such a thing could have happened? Is there any word from God that might break into our darkness like a ray of light?
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
If we Christians are right in believing that salvation belongs to Jesus Christ, that it does not come from us -- and that our hand cannot stop what God allows for us, then yes , there is hope in eternity even for those who take their own lives.
Having said that, I think that we must not call what is bad good, what is wrong right. Because we are Christians, we mus t say what we know is the truth – that taking your own life is against God who made us and against everyone who loves us .
Our lives are not our own. They are not ours to do with as we please. God gave us life, and we are to be good stewards of that gift for as long as God permits.
The finality of suicide makes this all the worse. You cannot make things right again. Neither can [REDACTED] .
And this is much of the pain of it all. Things are left unresolved, even if it felt to [REDACTED] like this was the only way to resolve things. You want to turn the clock back and say, " Please don't give up. We can work through this pain tog e ther . "
But no w you will have to work through this pain by yourselves, or with those close to you now who will need to lean on you even as you lean on them.
On most people's mind, however, especially of us who call ourselves Christians, on our minds as we sit in this place is: Can God forgive and heal this?
Yes, God CAN forgive even the taking of one's own life. In fact, God awaits us with his mercy, with ever open arms. Sacred Scripture says clearly: God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us (Romans 5:8). God's abiding mercy is what sets us to ask for it.
Although God doesn't dangle his mercy like a carrot , waiting for us to ask for it in order to receive it, we do have to believe in our hearts, express wi th our words, and show in our actions – that it is always there.
God wants nothing but our salvation but he will never force himself on us, he will not save us without us. That's how much he loves us. Because ofthe all - embracing sacrifice of Christ on the cross God can have mercy on any sin.
Yes , because of his mercy, God can forgive suicide and heal what has been broken. Because God is merciful he makes allowance for the spiritual, mental, and emotional despair that leads to suicide. Go d is able to read the heart, to know the whole truth of a person's life, and ther eby to pass sentence with mercy.
God knows something we must discipline o urselves to do in these moments – he knows not to judge a person's entire life on the basis of the worst and last choice the person made. God can look at the totality of a human being's life and celebrate all the good that came from it, even while taking seriously the tragic choice that en ded everything.
And then he shows his mercy and love in ways beyond our limited understanding. Nothing can separate us from the love of God, the great St. Paul assures us (in that Reading we just listened to). Nothing – including suicide.
That kind of thing stands out on a thread like this!
With your permission, I may steal it in the future. I think I'll attribute it to God. :o)
Yes. Well said.
Surprising, or not.
I guess suicide is ok now? Just like abortion? And homosexuality? It’s all ok now. Everything is ok now. Those on the thread that say suicide is ok and that this priest was wrong in what he said in the homily apparently believe that everything is ok as long as it is ok with their personal checklist and as long as it doesn’t affect them.Or as long as it affects them. Ugh.
I meant YOUR collection of Scripture Quotes.
Sorry for the typo.
It's 'bout time to let this dog lie and move on to greener pastures.
After the end of the formal mass.
And Eulogies by family or friends are discouraged.
We had one for my Dad, by my husband. 1999. It was discouraged after that and we didn’t have one for my Mom in 2006.
The thing about eulogies is they’re fine but not in the church during the Mass or right after. My brother wanted to give a eulogy for my Mom in 2006. Fine. But not in the Church which is for the funeral Mass. Have at it at the funeral parlor during the wake for at the cemetery during the funeral but not at the church during the mass.
It was ok in 1999 for my Dad’s funeral mass where my husband gave one. I guess it was new at the time in Catholic funeral masses so they allowed them. They don’t allow them now around here and that’s fine.
If people feel the need to make a speech about the deceased, they can do it elsewhere.
I definitely shudda read ahead!
That didn’t take long to read!
Though I fail to see what the big uproar is all about.
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