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To: SoCal Pubbie

So I am to understand that you claim that Southern plantation owners arranged to have their crops exported to England directly, including all shipping arrangements, without the need for third party brokers? That shippers filled their vessels with only one customer’s goods? That shippers could not find other goods from other customers say in England to return profitably? Or carry on to another port in Europe or elsewhere?

I am to take your word for all this?

Why would you assume they did not use 3rd party brokers (they were called “Factors” at the time)?

That shippers could not find other goods from other customers in England to return profitably....at the time the Factors would arrange shipping. (Northern bankers and insurance companies also serviced this trade and made a profit doing so and shipbuilders were indirectly employed as were shipping companies).

The only thing that could be used to help fill the holds of the ships to help defray the cost of transport was manufactured goods. They even tried taking transatlantic passengers for a time but manufactured goods were the most profitable. The owners of the cash crops on those ships would convert the money from sales to buy those manufactured goods. They then owned the manufactured goods. Those manufactured goods were then hit with the tariff upon arrival in the US.

Don’t take my word for it. There are numerous comments from Southerners and Northerners and the English at the time which all attest to this.


351 posted on 04/21/2018 1:20:22 PM PDT by FLT-bird (..)
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To: FLT-bird; BroJoeK; DiogenesLamp; x; rockrr
I don’t assume anything. I wanted to make sure I understood what you asserted, and allowed you the chance to rebut.

Now here’s where logic seems to break down. You and DiogenesLamp seem to believe that every dollar exported in Southern goods was returned penny for penny with imported goods one hundred percent paid by Southerners. This seems dubious at best.

For this to be true, every ship headed overseas would have carry only Southern produced goods, mostly cotton. There could be no mix of cotton and Northern grain or other foodstuffs in the holds. Since exports would be based on orders placed from foreign agents, then foreign needs would dictate the shipment. XYZ Company needing so much of this and so much of that might reasonably order different items at one times just as a retail store does today.

The image of segregation by region suggests the memory of “colored” drinking fountains during Jim Crow. One could imagine port signage reading Northern goods this way, Southern to the other.

Now, even if shipping WAS conducted this way, your assertion assumes that every plantation owner was in the import/export business. And IF they were, that every good they brought back home was destined for Southern markets. By simple mathematics then the demand for foreign goods in the South would have to about three times that of Northern residents. Since on average Southerners were richer, but the population was more stratified, this simply could not be.

The plain fact is you have no numbers for who paid tariffs, and as has been shown many times before, tariffs were in 1860. The Morell Tariff was passed AFTER the Southerners pulled out of Congress.

358 posted on 04/21/2018 1:55:00 PM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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