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To: DiogenesLamp

“Still wrong.”

Really? The Citadel is not in South Carolina? You do know there was no CSA at that time, right. So no Confederate military. These were the only men trained in artillery available to South Carolina at the time, so yeah, they count. Hell, sesech across the South took it upon themselves to act out.

“Yet you can tell me with a straight face that this “relief flotilla” was not meant to provoke armed conflict, and it was perfectly reasonable for there to be eight armed ships to deliver some supplies to Anderson at Fort Sumter?”

You can tell me with a straight face that surrounding a federal fort with artillery and troops demanding the surrender of the installation was not meant to provoke armed conflict? You’re going to tell me that declaring secession wasn’t meant to provoke armed conflict?

“It was the arrival of the Warships that triggered the attack.”

Except that Jefferson Davis had already ordered that the fort be attacked BEFORE the flotilla arrived. He could have ordered the resupply to go forward, or attacked the flotilla as had been done with the earlier ship. Instead he chose war.

“The Machinations were not in Lincoln’s cabinet, but in Lincoln himself.”

Not so. The secretary of the Navy and secretary of State issued conflicting orders. One for Powhatten to sail to Sumter, the other to Fort Pickens. Since Lincoln was commander in chief, his secret orders took precedence. Seward never resolved matters with Navy chief Welles as promised and Porter trumped Mercer.

“It was finally agreed that my plan should be carried out. I wrote the necessary orders, which were copied by Captain Meigs and signed by the President, who merely said as he did so, “Seward, see that I don’t burn my fingers.”

David Porter


215 posted on 04/18/2018 9:03:44 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: SoCal Pubbie
You can tell me with a straight face that surrounding a federal fort with artillery and troops demanding the surrender of the installation was not meant to provoke armed conflict?

It didn't. But you are changing the current point from the sending of the fleet to "But what about the other side?" I prefer to discuss one point at a time, and your appeals to "the other guy did it too!" is a logical fallacy that does not justify the behavior of the first party.

Except that Jefferson Davis had already ordered that the fort be attacked BEFORE the flotilla arrived.

Are you reading what I am posting? I already showed you that they had sighted some of the ships on April 9th, and on April 10th, and on April 11th. Also, Jefferson Davis didn't order the attack on Sumter, LP Walker did, and it was conditional on the hostile nature of those ships.

(I've noticed you have completely ran away from the economic argument I made about who was paying what, and who was getting what.)

He could have ordered the resupply to go forward,

And Lincoln could have ordered the evacuation of Sumter, which in fact Union officials had repeatedly said would happen.

Since Lincoln was commander in chief, his secret orders took precedence.

Why would there be a need for secret orders if it was just a mistake? Why would the orders require a Captain to be relieved of Command by a Lieutenant, (two ranks lower) and include a requirement that the Lieutenant (quickly made into a Vice Admiral) disobey any orders that did not come directly from Lincoln?

Why would the secret orders require the Lieutenant to disguise the ship and fly a British flag?

216 posted on 04/18/2018 10:42:26 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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