Posted on 02/06/2018 7:19:26 PM PST by Az Joe
>> Legendarily the O’Neills were first to claim Ireland when Heremon O’Neill lopped off his own hand and threw it ashore
Well, I’m not an O’Neill, and my family crest also has the hand...
You might want to research the matter, I’m not all that familiar with the Irish system of armorial bearing but typically when arms are “differenced” they will pick up aspects of maternal grandfather’s arms if there are no sons or the male to whom the arms belonged might even have ended up with a hyphenated surname, in England they would and in English Plantation-era Ireland they would, at least. So, you might find that you’re in some regards an O’Neill. Or, since it became so thoroughly identified with Ulster, the Red Hand may have come from their being Ulster Scots, which would be the simplest and most likely scenario.
Free Ulster!
Now you have me curious. I’ll definitely revisit the lineage.
Love the “hand” painting in your previous post.
I learned about the hand when I was kid. Never spoke about it, nor read about it thereafter. Then, it was just a hand on the family’s crest that represented courage and conviction well beyond my years. BTW, no hyphenation.
Aye, O’Salamander!
Decades of me randomly screaming that, on the interwebs.
:D
Is Lamont French?
I’m only versed in the English system of armorial bearing, under which arms belong to specific individuals, they’re not hereditary no matter what anyone claims. Under that system, each descendant bears his own arms if so entitled, and they’re “differenced” from those of their fathers. It can be minor or it can be major. Major differencing is usually derived from maternal family influences such as I mentioned.
The Irish and the English systems aren’t completely divorced from one another though, particularly very early prior to the establishment of the College Of Arms. That’s where things get interesting but also wobbly on provenance to the point of being closer to legend than fact. A very simple English coat of arms is a very old one. A very elaborate one is comparatively recent.
For instance, my surname is regarded as being English as the day is long, Domesday Book English, but as it turns out the very earliest coat of arms known, that predates the College Of Arms, is nearly identical to those of the Irish O’Tooles. One branch of the family has long claimed ancient Irish origin and so now we know why. Just interesting historical artifacts associated with ancestors though, these arms do not belong to me.
Old Norse, in the beginning.
There must have been times where generations passed along the arms of predecessors — perhaps during times of peace. I wouldn’t expect every descendant feel it necessary to mark the crest.
My family’s crest wasn’t that elaborate, but I remember its importance to my elders.
I appreciate the background, RG. I’m gonna do my homework.
Note the origin of Lamont with O’Neill in the Wikipedia listing that Sal provided. If that’s your surname or a family surname, it’s very likely where the Red Hand came from on your family crest, these people never forget.
Septs of clans also use variants of the clan badges.
Scandinavia is gorgeous. I have friends from the region that are solid. But it’s a hard connection to make between them and the destructive politics they ultimately embrace.
I’m linked to the O’Tooles.
G’night.
O’Toole is more Wicklow than Ulster.
Vikings really aren’t, anymore.
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