China's Hunt for Guo Wengui Kicks off Manhattan Caper Worthy of Spy Thriller

The Wall Street Journal ^ | October 22, 2017 | Kate O’Keeffe, Aruna Viswanatha, Cezary Podkul

[RohanKapoor]

Guo Wengui, a wealthy Chinese businessman, sat in the sun room of his apartment on the 18th-floor of the Sherry-Netherland Hotel on New York’s Fifth Avenue. With him were four officials from China’s Ministry of State Security, whom Mr. Guo had agreed to meet.

For many months, Mr. Guo, from his self-imposed exile, had been using Twitter to make allegations of corruption against senior Chinese officials and tycoons. During the hourslong conversation, the officials urged him to quit his activism and return home, after which the government would release assets it had frozen and leave his relatives in peace.

Liu Yanping, the lead official, said he had come on behalf of Beijing “to find a solution,” according to Mr. Guo and a partial audio recording Mr. Guo said he made of the May encounter and posted online in September.

Mr. Liu’s demeanor made clear this wasn’t a friendly negotiation, and he hinted at the risks for Mr. Guo. “You can’t keep doing this forever,” Mr. Liu can be heard telling Mr. Guo on the audio recording, reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. “I’m worried about you, to tell you the truth.”

The dramatic meeting sparked an unresolved debate within the Trump administration over the Guo case and laid bare broader divisions over how to handle the U.S.’s top economic and military rival, according to people familiar with the matter. U.S.-China relations have been upset by disagreements over trade, cyberespionage and policy toward North Korea, and Mr. Guo’s New York stay is only adding to the tension.

[familyop]

This is what stability and the treasonous trade regime bought for us.

China speeds ahead of U.S. as quantum race escalates, worrying scientists
https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3597828/posts

It also what got us where we are with North Korea. When the nukes fly, do you really believe that Americans will forget that and who caused it?

[Darksheare]

The chinese government owns all proxy services, there truly is no such thing as a vpn there.
Trying to anonymize yourself on the internet there gets you instantly flagged.

[familyop]

That second cousin propagandizes to his community about how the U.S. Army turns men into random, impulsive murderers, alcoholics and abusers of women. There have been many others who made similar claims while bragging about smoking dope and being Wiccans.

I didn’t hear any of that garbage from many of our fathers and grandfathers who were subject to a universal draft in the early ‘50s or ‘40s. They served and did not propagandize against defense. They were also loyal to our nation’s economic health. What has this country come to?

Whatever it is, I disagree with it. It’s a national shame that started at about the end of the 1960s. There was a group behind a President around 1970—a group that wanted most favored nation trade status for China. Then, politicians bowed to the likes of that group—most favored constituents—to pull out of Vietnam. Subsequent presidents implemented the evil policy.

But there are people from South Vietnam (now Americans) who thank us sincerely and emotionally to this day for our men’s efforts there. I respect and thank every man and woman of prior and present military service, too—each and every one who doesn’t blame themselves and the rest of us for having a bravo delta.

[Darksheare]

And we’re starting to do the same with our own internet and intel agencies.
Under Obama, the scope of domestic spying expanded exponentially.
The alphabet agencies were salivating to do here what China does there.

And you know what?
I keep posting despite their surveillance of opposing viewpoints.

Discussion is open, bravery is discussing what the people in power don’t want you discussing or acknowledging.
And doing it in full knowledge they are watching.

[Enchante]

I don’t at all endorse the trade and other policies we have pursued toward the PRC over decades. We definitely should now regard them as the greatest economic and strategic threat. We never should have built up their economy (and hollowed out ours) over several decades. I always thought we should FIRST require them to open up politically and reform (however unlikely that would be) before we ever allowed massive trade with them, allowed them into the WTO, etc. etc. Both Republicans and Democrats have sold us out to the PRC for decades.

But pursuing a much more savvy and aggressive economic and strategic policy toward the PRC does not mean trying to overthrow their regime. We should have been protecting US interests far better over decades and going forward now.

[Darksheare]

Absolutely hate that Nixon normalized relations with China.
Very very short sighted.
(February 1972!)

[familyop]

"The chinese government owns all proxy services, there truly is no such thing as a vpn there. Trying to anonymize yourself on the internet there gets you instantly flagged."

It gets you flagged here, too. I take issue with them and their American-based global proxies doing that in my country. If there's a foreign threat, let's fight a war. Turning the democratic world into a police state for stability in investments is not the answer, especially with the balance of payments deficits in trade and mountains of debts at home.

Father knew best. And as our forefathers told us before they died, we Baby Boomers as a group are spoiled rotten. And you see what's coming at us as a result.

Our economic "leaders" were wrong. Contrary to what they claimed, there will be wars. That's because we built the schoolyard bullies of the world up instead of building a proper defense against them with a nation of men at work. The coverup about the nuclear weapons forces that those bully nations have been building on our dime and our jobs is only beginning to be uncovered. Same with their intentions.

[Darksheare]

Something else that should probably be mentioned: PRC spying on US military industry.
During the Clinton years, he gave China full access to many R&D sites.
One of them being Picatinney Arsenal.
They were given a call five minutes before the PRC delegation arrived telling them that they were coming.
Sensitive items weren’t covered in time, pictures were taken, papers swiped, you name it they did it all with a wink and a nod by Bubba Clinton.

[Darksheare]

Change won’t come to China from outside, it has to come from within.
The only way that will happen is if enough people get fed up and start speaking out, and possibly dying for their beliefs.
The reunification of Germany came about through officials blundering and mispeaking, and people saying as one group “you know, this wall is rather tacky. Let’s get rid of it.”
And the east German stasi were eventually overwhelmed by sheer numbers, they could only impotently stand by. Mouths agape.

[familyop]

"But pursuing a much more savvy and aggressive economic and strategic policy toward the PRC does not mean trying to overthrow their regime."

I agree with that as far as not invading, occupying and denazifying (the only way to make it stick) before we or any of our allies are attacked. Pride goes before the fall.

But I don't fault any victim of communism/fascism for wanting it to happen. Any news of how average civilians are generally treated inside those countries should be known by all. Otherwise, no support here for defense funding or other efforts to build an adequate defense for likely situations. Look at the attitudes and national ignorance that got us to this situation.

And how much time do we have before a small aggressor might start the big exchange? We know that Russia and China want all of Asia with no involvement on our part. They'll take us out of the way with nukes, if they believe in the possibility. And although their elite people have some fine shelter facilities, they don't care what happens to the majority of their own non-elite people in the process. As the Nazis would have put it, they're not sentimental about us or their peasants.

[familyop]

"Something else that should probably be mentioned: PRC spying on US military industry. During the Clinton years, he gave China full access to many R&D sites. One of them being Picatinney Arsenal. They were given a call five minutes before the PRC delegation arrived telling them that they were coming. Sensitive items weren’t covered in time, pictures were taken, papers swiped, you name it they did it all with a wink and a nod by Bubba Clinton."

Yes. But also try to imagine how many have been through our universities since the '70s with PLA training before arriving for the visits. Our own leaders have said that they're not smart enough to be a threat in the future. Educate engineers, though, and...

And why? Yet another effort for over 40 years to keep sufficiently intelligent American men from getting adequate jobs and going to college, besides destroying so many families with libertine social policies. All in all, an effort to keep potential domestic ingenuity and competition down. That's what has likely hurt our defense more than anything else.

[familyop]

"The reunification of Germany came about through officials blundering and mispeaking, and people saying as one group “you know, this wall is rather tacky. Let’s get rid of it.” And the east German stasi were eventually overwhelmed by sheer numbers, they could only impotently stand by. Mouths agape."

Also thanks to our forefathers who invaded, occupied and denazified the country in the 1940s.

Denazification, cumulative review. Report, 1 April 1947-30 April 1948.
http://digital.library.wisc.edu/1711.dl/History.Denazi

It's been good and very interesting. Thanks to both of you. Gotta go for now. "...miles to go before I sleep" (Robert Frost, "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening").

[bagster]

This thread has evolved nicely. Good job boys.

[familyop]

Hopefully, it can all be done with the most peaceful means possible—even diplomacy and changes within the leaders themselves. What a surprise that would be. Talk to you later.

[familyop]

Thanks. Have a great day!

RohanKapoor, you have a great day, too. All the best. Be wise. Be humble. Be careful, quiet and with the patience of the eldest of elders. Do healthy exercise every day, and focus on the simple things. Big changes take lifetimes. We can only hope that our grandchildren will benefit from our efforts. We each only try to do better today than yesterday. That’s all that matters.

[familyop]

"????? We don’t know anything about the OP (most of us). If you don’t care to explain then you are not helping the discussion. All I see is someone posting “drive by” threads with a very limited focus and never staying around"

Oh...one more thing. Language barriers. I did some editing for a pro-traditional-family narrow interest group long ago. On at least a couple of occasions, I translated foreign language documents in to English. That took hours each time. I had plenty of time online, but some other folks don't. ...only speculation here preceded by a quick look at something written by someone else.

Ever meet any very pro-American foreign asset who really needed some help? It can be heartbreaking to be unable to help them.

[T-Bone Texan]

Frankly, I find them inscrutable.

That’s my take.

[bagster]

Oh, they are indeed inscrutable. Also, they have good gung- fu.

[Lazamataz]

Oh, they are indeed inscrutable. Also, they have good gung- fu.

Their gung-fu is good, but it is not superior to mine.

[bagster]

Nor mine. North shao-lin temple. You?