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To: zeestephen

“... in 10,000 BC they had free oxygen, free gravity, free atmospheric pressure, free firewood, free animals for food and clothing, free water, and free nuts and fruit.”

and somehow no one leaned how to barter or trade, or worse sell things for markers of value (money); while living in this state of total bliss, all the predator animals and people from other groups studiously avoided conflict because everything essential was plentiful and free.

And that had been going on for the past 250,000-350,000 years of human existence - simply amazing!

“Visiting other star systems means solving the speed of light problem” assuming that there isn’t another way to move across space and time like proposed by James Clerk Maxwell in 1859 (the father of everything we know today).

Sending robots is a poor way to explore anything - one gains some information, but there is no certainty that the information received is actually correct, since it cannot be verified by an actual observer on the spot. Worse the robot can only report what it has been programmed to report: if, in an extreme example, an alien space craft were to approach the robot, the craft’s existence would go unreported because no one told the robot to be on the look out for alien spaceships. Only a human would think to report it. If robots had been used to explore the continent of Africa - that exploration would still be in its infancy today, and nothing much would be known about it beyond a few miles inland from the coast.

To explore is to take risks. And that cost money. Knowledge is not free.


6 posted on 10/15/2017 2:25:31 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: PIF
If we really want to explore space we need to do it more methodically rather than be drama queens by striking out for places like Mars.

We should establish a large base on the Moon with lots of people that are supplied by a stream of supply ships from Earth.

The gravitational well on the Moon is much shallower than that on Earth. Over time we could build huge ships with massive walls that we could send to Mars. No problems with radiation.

But of course the only reason we went to the Moon was to beat the Soviets, and the reason we will go to Mars is to beat the Chinese. This is not a plan. This is just another episode of America's Got Talent.

13 posted on 10/15/2017 9:52:02 AM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: PIF
Re: To explore is to take risks. And that costs money. Knowledge is not free.”

Hopefully, that is obvious to everyone.

I have always supported the robotic exploration of space, which includes space telescopes, orbiters, landers, fly-bys, sample returns, and Earth satellites.

Also, as long as your HUMAN space explorations and settlements are funded by private investments or private philanthropy, I say, “Explore and settle to your heart's content.”

However, when space investors and philanthropists demand that taxpayers help fund HUMAN adventures, I say “no,” unless there is a clear path to commercial profits.

Besides space tourism, which has already started, there are no commercially viable business plans for space, except maybe for Helium-3, but, since no one has ever built a Helium-3 reactor, who knows?

Re: Barter and trade in 10,000 BC

There was very little.

A couple million people were spread out across Africa, Europe, and Asia. There were no roads, no farming, no domesticated animals (except hunting and guard dogs), no boats, and no wheels. Most people spent their entire lives within 100 miles of their birthplace, because everything they needed to survive was readily at hand - or else they died.

In sharp contrast, small numbers of space settlers will be spread out over hundreds of millions of miles. And, they will be in perpetual need of highly sophisticated equipment - just to sustain their lives. Who is going to make that equipment, except people on Earth? And who is going to pay for that life sustaining equipment, besides people on Earth?

Re: “James Clerk Maxwell in 1859”

I know Maxwell devised all the seminal equations for electromagnetism.

I have no idea what Maxwell did in 1859 to solve the speed of light problem in space travel.

Bottom Line...

I think it is quite possible that the future of human beings will look much like Star Wars and Star Trek.

On the other hand, I think that future is thousands, and probably tens of thousands, of years away.

14 posted on 10/15/2017 2:35:51 PM PDT by zeestephen
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