Bump.
Posted on 06/28/2017 11:20:43 AM PDT by Sopater
In your reading of the biographies, did you ever come across any information indicating Lincoln was a white supremacist?
No, none.
I know you and I have not always seen eye-to-eye on everything.
Can we at least agree on Professor Walter E. Williams logical conclusion: “Confederate generals were fighting for independence from the Union just as George Washington and other generals fought for independence from Great Britain. Those who'd label Gen. Robert E. Lee as a traitor might also label George Washington as a traitor. I'm sure Great Britain's King George III would have agreed.”
I love Professor Williams.
No.
Yes. Prior to the Civil War, the country was usually referred to as "These United States." Afterward, "The United States" became standard.
The reason I ask about possible white supremacy views of Lincoln is because of what he said in at least one of the Lincoln-Douglas debates: "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
That really does sound like a white supremacy viewpoint.
Did I ever make any claim of a “moral cause” in the North’s handling of a rebellion? Don’t think I did.
I am sure Lincoln was conflicted regarding slavery and race relations. But he also ultimately issued the Emancipation Proclamation and pushed through the 13th Amendment.
I grow tired of those who pick away at Lincoln, try to make him out to be a racist and a bad man. He was a good man and a good president.
Earlier you had your flame-proof jammies on and ready for an evening of bashing racists, but already you “grow tired” of those who question Lincoln's racist past.
Can you tell us more about the good kind of racists? Are those the ones that kill bad racists?
“Did I ever make any claim of a “moral cause” in the North’s handling of a rebellion? Don’t think I did.”
I think you and I agree the North was not fighting for a moral cause. Most likely they were fighting for the economic and political best interests of the northern states. Follow the money.
And that was the same reason the original northern states voted to enshrine slavery in the U.S. constitution.
Let’s continue to work together to get the word out.
Let’s review.
What main reason did the secessionist leaders give for seceding from the United States?
I have talked to you before about using Lincoln quotes deceptively. You should apologize and then present at least the full paragraph. And then maybe try putting it in context. And how it was used in a rebuttal in a debate with Stephen Douglas. You might also provide the year. The true greatness of the man is beyond your powers of comprehension. In today’s lingo one might refer to Abe as a racist, or, someone like you, as a white supremacist, but they would be judging Abe by today’s standards. What you are missing and what I have tried to tell you before, is that despite Abe’s personal view on blacks, he knew that slavery was wrong. He hated slavery. Sure, if Douglas was going to make slavery legal all across the country, Abe would certainly not want to be the “enslaved”. Abe did make those statements about blacks, and then humorously made much the same argument at Douglas personally (that is, that Douglas was not Abe’s intellectual equal either). He did say that Douglas ignored the basic humanity of blacks, and that slaves did have an equal right to liberty. Now, that may seem unbecoming to you, that a man would have and express such hatred. You have been shown many, many Abraham Lincoln quotes in which he expresses his hatred for slavery. It all falls on deaf ears. You are a Lincoln hater. Abraham Lincoln, hated slavery, anytime, anywhere. Even if it was of an inferior “race” by a superior “race”. Abe believed that all men were created equal and with the same rights (whether he personally liked those men or nor). On the flip side we have the pro-slavers. Maybe they loved the blacks. Is that what you are trying to say?
Abraham Lincoln was probably the most pragmatic man to ever occupy the Oval office. Lincoln said all along that the objective was to restore the Union. So be it. The rest of your statements are pure drivel, unsubstantiated by any real facts.
I think fighting for your country against the forces of a rebellion trying to tear it apart is a moral cause.
Measured by today's standards? Yes. Please point out a single person of the times who was not?
Can you admit that you have absolutely no problem with white supremacists as a whole, and are upset by only one single white supremacist from the 19th century? Just curious.
Bump.
"Why I du declare, it's my old friend Sambo, course you'll fight for us, lend us a hand, old hoss,du!"
Guess what. They didn't.
Massachusetts courts ruled slavery illegal in the 1780s. By 1800 (if not sooner) no one was held as a slave in the state.
They didn't pass laws against slavery in later years for the same reason there aren't laws against cannibalism in the US (except in Idaho).
Nobody was doing it, and you'd be violating other laws if you tried (sort of makes you wonder why an anti-cannibalism law was needed in Idaho).
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