In 2015, a 30 Year Old French Nuclear Submarine 'Sank' a U.S. Aircraft Carrier

National Interest ^ | December 31, 2016 | Kyle Mizokami

[C19fan]

One always need to take into consideration the parameters of the exercise. Hopefully lessons were learned.

[Gaffer]

IIRC, there was also a case of a Chinese submarine surfacing inside the wires of a Carrier Battle Group.

[C19fan]

The scary thing about the French sub is the I believe the Chinese deploy subs of similar quality.

[Vaquero]

Yes our new action Navy was too busy cross dressing and tooting on their bunk mates horn pipe.

[meatloaf]

I doubt it. We’re still building aircraft carriers and equipping them with aircraft that are out ranged by Chinese missiles.

It’s battleship mentality redux.

[trebb]

One always need to take into consideration the parameters of the exercise. Hopefully lessons were learned.

Hopefully - I wonder how training budget cuts may have affected the readiness of the Captain/crew - it has been mentioned by some folks who are/should be "in the know" as having serious detrimental affects on our readiness.

[C19fan]

I wish there were stats on % of subs that penetrated the ASW screens. Of course that would be top secret. The only news I see are these occasional individual incidences.

[FreedomPoster]

My gut is that ASW has gotten short shrift since about 1990. Not good.

One of the indications is that nothing replaced the Hoover in the inventory, so there are no longer carrier-based fixed-wing ASW assets.

[lrdg]

I recall that during my time on aircraft carrier we used to joke about them being big grey targets and wonder where pilots thought they were going to land if the shooting got serious.

BTW ~ C19fan, I did two cruises on CVA19. Any connection?

[mylife]

Hey, I respect all my bubblehead brethren.

Death from below! and above, and behind...

[mylife]

There are 2 things in the sea.

Submarines,and targets.

[BwanaNdege]

S-3 Viking

"Hoover"

[central_va]

Wartime and peacetime exercises are totally different. It is ridiculous to compare sneak attack in peacetime with wartime operations.

[central_va]

It is amazing the ignorance on Free Republic about ASW, peacetime cruising vs wartime operations.

[FreedomPoster]

I had a guy who worked for me in his first post-Navy job, who had been a reactor officer on a 688 boat.

He didn’t/couldn’t say much, but it was clear he didn’t think much of CVBG ASW. This was 20+ years ago.

[unread]

"Yes our new action Navy was too busy cross dressing and tooting on their bunk mates horn pipe."

"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash....." Sir Winston Churchill.....

[DJ Taylor]

"The first phase involved the Saphir integrated with U.S. Navy forces to locate enemy submarines and pass data on to other friendly anti-submarine warfare assets. The “enemy submarine” in this case may have been the Los Angeles-class nuclear submarine attached to CSG 12.

In the second phase of the exercise, the Saphir switched sides and became part of the enemy force."

This could be an explanation of how the French sub wasn't immediately recognized as an enemy sub. It had changed sides in this simulated battle and the word wasn't adequately passed that it was now an enemy sub and not friendly.

It was simply a case of mistaken identity and not a penetration of convoy's defensive permiter by the French sub.

[central_va]

Navy exercises involving a sub STARTING 10 NM form a CVBG with targeting information is not really a fair assessment of ASW capabilities. ASW is a game of chess. If a enemy sub is with 10 NM of the CVBG and is not being trailed by one of out own then the game is already over.

A better scenario would be for the sub to start in France, transit across the Atlantic and intercept the CVBG without detection or being followed by one of our own.

In wartime you don't send a CVBG in an area of probability that has a known untracked sub in it.

Plus one torpedo is not going to SINK a CVN. It could damage it and send to to dry dock but it is not gong to sink it. You do not conduct CVBG ops or amphibious operation until the ASW situition under control. Just like the Air Force doesn't send in level bombers or attack aircraft into a battle until air superiority has been established.

Bubble heads know in wartime that the sub would have been trailed all the way across the Atlantic and sunk WAY before it got anywhere near Florida but they won't tell you that.

[ConservaTeen]

Lessons learned? In Oblamo’s military? Oblamo wanted to hire Klinger (from MASH) to be the fashion guru for Military cross dressers. Oblamo thought Klinger was real...

[Jeff Head]

A LOT depends on the rules of engagement.

In additin, US carriers are each being armed (when they come in for maintenance overhauls) with a new anctie, anti-torpedo system in addition to the decoys and electronic measures they already employ which have tested very effective. These of course are not tested in such exercises because no torpedoes are actually launched.

The new active system employs an anti-torpedo, torpedo which is launched to destroy the incoming weapon.

My guess is, that the rules of engagement heavily favored the sub.

In addition, my own contacts in the naval ASW community tell me that the Chinese sub surfaced because it was tagged and made clear that it had to surface. The truth of that is something we will not know for probably 30-50 years.