Posted on 12/05/2016 5:58:49 AM PST by ExpatCanuck
City and fire officials ignored numerous violations because this was a collective of 'artists' and an enclave of progressive values. They (the victims) didn't deserve to die for this, but that is why they did. Had this been a remotely conservative venue, say a Tea Party meeting place, or a church meeting house, it would have been shut down a long long time ago due to the safety violations.
The officials are in full hand wringing and teeth gnashing mode trying to figure out how something this terrible could happen and will no doubt find their scapegoat (deservedly so in this case) in operator Derick Ion, and conveniently forget their selective enforcement of regulations as being a significant contributing factor.
Its been reported that as recently as three weeks ago, complaints were filed, inspections were made, etc.
I actually think private property rights and bureaucracy played a hand. City code officials usually have a difficult time (and a long drawn out process) trying to enforce code violations, because of strong property rights. That’s a good thing.
But I think officials (and the law) do a poor job of weighing private property rights vs the public good. Sure this was a privately owned building...but the second it became apparent that this warehouse was being used as a public gathering place (parties), the enforcement should change. People naturally assume, when they go to a commercial building, that it is built to code, inspected, and relatively safe, at their peril when officials treat a firetrap like this warehouse no different than a complaint over the grass being too tall.
It wasn’t zoned for these parties (a violation to answer your original question), and the city should have found a judge to give them the authority to put a padlock on the door.
If I had a loved one who was a victim of that fire I would have spat in her face.
Kind of proves my initial point, no?
Fire killed them. They were in the fire because of their own decision to pursue entertainment in a dangerous building.
Yeah.
It was probably a sacrifice to Moloch, one way or another.
You are making, as they say, a distinction without a difference. These infernos happen periodically, often with hundreds of casualties, and are usually in places that liberal bureaucrats keep hands off because they don’t want to upset liberals’ pets.
Straw man. I do not need to provide evidence that the city took appropriate steps because I am not making accusations one way or the other.
I am a supporter of private property rights and due process. Property owners (and tenants) have rights - one of those being the right to due process. If violations were present and enforcement was not being adequately pursued, then I am sure it will come out in the investigation and I certainly hope any/all guilty parties will be punished.
However, if investigations were underway (which is pretty much what published articles have mentioned thus far) but were not yet complete, then it is incorrect to accuse city officials of not properly enforcing their codes.
I amazes me how quickly some conservatives will switch from protectors of property rights and due process to proponents of the nanny-state when it comes to people who think or act differently from them.
Finally, it appears that an illegal, unpermitted, "rave" was being held in the building at the time of the fire. Such events are virtually impossible to prevent, regardless of how strictly or leniently building codes are being enforced. It appears to me that the organizer(s) of the illegal, unpermitted, "rave" are the most culpable party in this tragedy.
I expect it’s both.
The overriding part is the horror and sorrow of those who perished and their families, their friends. I was young once ;) and can well imagine myself or pals unwittingly ending up in a similar place/situation. For freepers who never went through a rebellious stage, or trying to see the world through eyes other than my family’s, it may be a stretch.
At the same time, in Oakland there appear to be some conflicting desires and agendas. First, it is the responsibility of Code Enforcement to...enforce codes!!! This building has been the subject of multiple violations over years. In no way was there ever a straightforward attempt to force the dwellers or the owner to comply. No one meant business.
This brings us to the second agenda- Oakland as a haven for “artists”, musicians, off—the-grid hippies, alternative lifestyle misfits, etc. This character Derick Ion, consciously or otherwise took advantage of these kids and charged them $500 month for a “space” with overloaded and shoddy electricity, no hot water or real bathrooms, no actual kitchen. From reading several accounts there were rats, feces, used condoms and bugs. It was freezing in winter yet the kids loved the “family” and “art”..
But as to ideology - it’s a real problem for the left because their go-to solution is new legislation. The trouble is, they invariably lack the WILL TO ENFORCE the laws they pass.
So they may SAY, we’ve got the strictest this or that law. And feel smug while letting hippies and illegal aliens actually break the law in broad daylight.
I understand. I guess I'm saying it doesn't help our cause to speculate on that before it is known. It is possible, I suppose, but it's also possible that the fire inspector's office is underfunded, or incompetent, or corrupt. The first two possibilities might be traceable to liberalism, although the route to doing so will be somewhat circuitous and the other side will be able to obfuscate to such a point that the lesson is lost, and our side will be made to look like we're engaging in political opportunism. Which we object to when Liberals do it to us (remember "never let a crisis go to waste?).
The third possibility is a factor in many cities, and has little to do with ideology (although I will admit to a personal suspicion that cities run by conservatives are less corrupt than those run by liberals; however I can't prove it, so it's hardly worth expressing).
Well said. I particularly remember being in some places that were probably firetraps as a young person. The people who built them did so out of a desire to create something; ideology was the farthest thing from their mind.
In particular, I’m thinking of a recording studio I loved when I was in college. Looking back on it, it was super dangerous. But no one got hurt, and a lot of good music was made and distributed from there.
There was no ideology involved whatsoever. I know for a fact that one of the engineers was (or anyway would become) a conservative.
Yeah, I saw the same presser with the 3 women officials, which included a lesbian and a black. They need to dump the other white woman for an Asian.
“Youth is wasted on the young”..
Liberals everywhere, from the Mayor and City Council to firetrap investigators, the police, fire department and that speechless idiot they’ve made fire (PC) chief.
Yes, liberalism killed them.
Absolutely, Positively YES!!!
Of course the liberal progressive good times rock n roll hippy authorities ignored this fire trap because they agreed or identified with the philosophy. As others have said, if that venue had been occupied in similar manner by a conservative or ‘right wing’ group it would have been shut down. Liberal’s and progressives are not concerned about laws unless others are breaking them. Think of the egregious crimes and law breaking by hellary and her bunch of progressive thugs-nary a concern by just us. That was a horrible tragedy that occurred because a bunch of clueless progressives allowed those conditions to exist. Now they will be scrambling to make it Bush’s or Trump’s fault.
I don’t think that arose out of a Liberal ideology but an even greater ideology for many public officials and that is “Never let yourself be a victim of a hostile press.” And trust me the press would have spun any shut-down and strict enforcement to stoke up sympathy for the building’s occupants (if not the tenant in charge or owner). Why? Because headlines like, “No Place To Go, City Officials Leave Struggling Artists Homeless.” sell more papers than “Code Violations Found at Ghost Ship Building.”
Heads should roll. Unfortunately officials are protected against personal liability and proving gross negligence and malfeasance in violation of their public duties is not that easy. Those who are not protected by sovereign immunity or “No duty of care” laws should face heavy fines and long prison sentences.
I have also read that several tenets saw the building was a fire hazard but elected to stay. I’m going to guess they did so because they figured if anything happened there would be time to get out. Most people have no idea how fast fire spreads and that the way fires are depicted in movies or TV shows is BS. In addition to the horror of the flames there would have been a lot of toxic smoke from artists’ work and supplies. The people who died did not die easy. God rest their souls.
I’d be up for a long weekend ‘defense conference’ in Vegas with the ‘Ministers’ in the top picture.
I’m going to assume that none of those women have any real defense chops to recommend them. Their nations can do that because their de facto Defense Minister is Uncle Sam.
Conservative or Right Wing groups would have taken one look at the violations and fixed that crap up on their own if public officials had not responded to complaints. They would have notified the owner and chief tenet of their rights under landlord tenet laws. They would have filed suit for recovery of any money lost because of the violations. They would have dogged officials to get appropriate action. They sure as heck would not have been defenseless against the chief tenet threatening them with a gun. They would have made sure that any homeless sent to harass them know this would not be a good place for them.
In short they would have done what responsible grown ups do when faced with a problem that could lead to life threatening consequences. They would not have just put up with it because of convenience or other lame excuse.
Bingo. Which is why so many in Yurp were soiling themselves over some of Trump’s statements, which were clearly made to get NATO countries to do their duty on defense spending.
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