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The notion that beating people repeatedly is okay, provided they are too small to defend themselves, is clearly an anti-civilizational idea.
1 posted on 09/03/2016 8:24:22 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan

Even Dr. Ben Spock, who wrote the book on not spanking and being a lazy parent, recanted his writings:

“We have reared a generation of brats. Parents aren’t firm enough with their children for fear of losing their love or incurring their resentment. This is a cruel deprivation that we professionals have imposed on mothers and fathers. Of course, we did it with the best of intentions. We didn’t realize until it was too late how our know-it-all attitude was undermining the self assurance of parents.”


154 posted on 09/04/2016 11:09:03 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam should be banned and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: Arthur McGowan

“The notion that beating people repeatedly is okay, provided they are too small to defend themselves, is clearly an anti-civilizational idea.”

The application of painful sanctions in response to bad behavior (especially the willful sort) is a wonderfully economical technique. Probably the only functional one too. Every organism (humans included) works harder to avoid negative consequences than it will to reap rewards. At the end of the day, it matters a whole lot less whether the recipient feels validated, happy, or brim-full of self-esteem; it matters only that they modify their behavior.

“Positive motivation,” therefore, is not merely an anti-civilizational idea, its assertions are contrary to everything found in the natural world.

(I credit the late Robert A. Heinlein for these ideas, which he stated {in better prose} in his novel _Starship Troopers_. I’d furnish a verbatim quote but I am presently unable to locate any of the half-dozen copies we have).

But we waste our time attempting to argue with the likes of Arthur McGowan. It’s a mild surprise he hasn’t been citing stray notions from religious dogma, inexpertly interpreted, in support of this variety of loopy postmodern therapeutic diktats. Caring uber alles.

And no, I did not watch the vid. Don’t need to, to bet the odds on its content. Psychology, sociology, and the other disciplines we could group under the topic heading of “social science” hasn’t contained any actual science since the 1960s. And there wasn’t much there before.


157 posted on 09/04/2016 12:02:26 PM PDT by schurmann
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To: Arthur McGowan; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; ...
The notion that beating people repeatedly is okay, provided they are too small to defend themselves, is clearly an anti-civilizational idea.

The notion that it is is okay to construe Biblical physical discipline of children as beating them senseless, or that judicious, measured physical discipline of children is not okay if warranted, is a liberal, anti-Christ, anti-Biblical and anti-civilizational idea. The same hands that hug sometimes also may need to spank, with some children it being more often needful than others. "Time outs" can teach a child how to simply do time, and here or in Hell, a soul will learn there are literally painful consequences for disobeying God's law and valid authority.

And the "defenseless" appeal would make forms of child punishment wrong unless he is escape the consequences.

The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame. (Proverbs 29:15)

He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. (Proverbs 13:24)

Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. (Proverbs 22:15)

Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying. (Proverbs 19:18)

Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. (Proverbs 23:13-14)

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. (Hebrews 12:6)

For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth. (Proverbs 3:12)

159 posted on 09/04/2016 2:02:44 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: Arthur McGowan
ew studies have failed to find even a single positive benefit to spanking children

Like a car thief cannot find a police station.

This article talks some sense:

Whenever I read something on the spanking controversy, I remember an incident in a downtown day care. It happened at about 6:05 p.m., five minutes past the deadline for parents to depart with their offspring. The staff was itching to leave, and an occasional dirty look aimed at a tardy parent darted through the mask of cordiality stretched across their faces. I was hurriedly helping my son put on his socks, shoes, and coat, when I heard a commotion behind me. I turned; it was another late parent walking toward us carrying a boy of about four, her arms locked firmly around his middle. He was kicking and yelling at the top of his lungs, "No! No! Put me down!" She was talking to him in the very best contemporary parenting book manner: very calmly, very firmly, not raising her voice. "It's time to go now," she said. "I've given you 20 minutes to play with the day-care toys. That's enough. Daddy's got dinner ready, and he's waiting for us at home."

She put him down by the kiddie coat rack, and knelt beside him. He seized this brief moment of freedom to unleash a barrage of blows to her head and chest. "Let me go!" he yelled as he connected with her chin. She looked around in embarrassment. I averted my eyes. "That hurt," she said evenly, taking down his coat, "That really hurt. I don't like that." She grappled with him in a fruitless effort to force him into his coat; he wriggled out easily, shoving her face as far away from him as possible. The struggle continued for minutes, then reached a stalemate. The day-care staff, looking on with increasing disgust and fatigue, offered such helpful comments as, "Come on Tyler. It's time to go home now."

As I left with my son, I reflected upon the spirit of the age that has blessed us with such incidents. Perhaps some nonaversive method of discipline would have made that terrible child comply with his mother's request quickly, but I cannot think of it. I am convinced that the most effective solution in that particular instance would have been a sharp, compliance-inducing swat on the bottom.

A New Definition of Spanking

But what parent does that today when people are watching? The antispanking movement has done a brilliant job propagating the view that spanking is just another form of child abuse. Normal parents are not just frightened of appearing abusive; they also fear that an occasional swat to the behind can turn their little darling into a dangerously aggressive adolescent and an incorrigibly criminal adult, as the "scientific evidence" says. In fact, the antispanking movement, and its agents in the mainstream media, has used this weak, and in some cases simply non-existent, evidence to beat parents into submission. Antispanking advocates have given us nothing more than a smattering of half-truths along with heavy smacks of propaganda.

Before I continue, let me state categorically that I reject spanking as a primary method of discipline. Let no one see this article as encouragement to parents to spank their children for every little thing. It goes without saying that I support all efforts to end the physical abuse of children, but I do not think that spanking, used rarely and judiciously, is abuse. Rather, it can be useful in some situations, with many kids.

But what is spanking? Antispankers define it as broadly as possible, not just to show that spanking causes harm, but to more easily place it on a continuum with child abuse. One antispanking article, for example, defined spanking as "any disciplinary hitting of kids that's not injurious or currently considered abusive." Note the emotive and misleading word hitting which can include punching, cuffing, boxing the ears, and slapping the face. But the meaning of the word spanking, which has remained relatively stable over the centuries, is quite different from these abusive behaviors. The English language's most authoritative source, the Oxford English Dictionary, defines the verb to spank as "To slap or smack (a person, esp. a child) with the open hand." Its earliest etymological entry, dated 1727, reads, "To spank, to slap with the open hand.

More: Questioning the Research

A Questionable Link

Is Spanking Harmful?

Also of interest, New Study Finds Spanking Is Good for Kids

160 posted on 09/04/2016 2:36:01 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: Arthur McGowan
The notion that beating people repeatedly is okay, provided they are too small to defend themselves, is clearly an anti-civilizational idea.

There's a reason God required bishops and pastors to be married and have children...It is so they would have the experience to deal with family issues so they could advise families legitimately...

God says spare the rod and spoil the child...But then a lot of what God says doesn't seem to mean much to Catholics...

170 posted on 09/04/2016 7:40:51 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Arthur McGowan
Why Spanking Does Not Work | Elizabeth Gershoff and Stefan Molyneux

Probably because you girls didn't do it right!

175 posted on 09/04/2016 8:16:34 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Worked with me.


177 posted on 09/04/2016 8:52:07 PM PDT by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Still bitterly clinging to rational thought despite it's unfashionability)
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To: Arthur McGowan; daniel1212

I don’t believe in “new study” findings. They are nothing more than opinions with facts twisted around them. To show how stupid this study is compare America or Europe penal system to say the Middle East. They don’t hesitate to use the death penalty or offering stiff punishment for crime whereas America and Europe are constantly wringing their hands over incarceration. The evidence is in who has the lower crime rate.

To say there are no benefits to punishment, including spanking, is nothing more than liberal garbage.


185 posted on 09/06/2016 6:08:54 AM PDT by HarleyD
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