My rule of thumb is that it is upstate if they have lost a quarter or more of their population in the last fifty years.
Amazing, but true...
https://www.osc.state.ny.us/localgov/pubs/research/pop_trends.pdf
True. It’s sad, but we are being taxed and charged for utilities out of existence. We are not going to retire here for those two reasons. Looking for the most conservative area of KY to buy a retirement house.