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IAM, Norm isn't talking about waiting on other people to come around to our way of thinking.

What Norm is talking about is being accountable for want you vote FOR and to STOP with the happy self-delusion that you didn't vote for leftist Romney, not really, and you didn't vote for a TV host for Republican president who himself has never voted in a Republican primary (something I have been doing for 40 years), you voted against the Democrat. When in truth, the only thing you did was for FOR whoever it is you voted for. PERIOD.

I only vote for what I want to win, and so does Norm. For a long time, I voted the way YOU still vote, IAM, and therefore, I am partly responsible for getting us into this mess. There is no "waiting on other people to come around to my way of thinking."

There is ONLY being accountable for what you vote for.

I didn't understand half of what you said or were alluding to. Sorry.

Regarding this notion of voting for only what you want to win, and taking responsibility, I disagree with your characterizations. It isn't just what you vote for. Its what you vote for AND what you vote against, rolled up into your one vote. Voting on principle for somebody who will never get the majority of votes and win means a compromise candidate lost and the bad guy won, both outcomes your responsibility. Compromising and voting for somebody with less of your principals, who manages to get the majority of votes means your guy won (though he is a lessor guy) and the bad guy lost, both your responsibility. You helped drive the bad guy from office by accepting something less than what you wanted. But if you didn't compromise, that could never happen and the bad guy wins every time. I would rather take credit for getting a bad guy out of office by electing a marginal guy than see the bad guy remain in office by voting for a principled guy who never stands a chance of winning (because of the whims of the electorate). Of course, I'm talking general elections, NOT primaries. I'm voting Cruz up to the point that it is too late, then jumping to Trump I suppose to not see the bad guy (Hilldabeast) win. And you're wrong about my voting history. I vote libertarian and Constitution Party and other 3rd parties most of the time in generals, but Obama was an abomination and I had to let my principals down to the floor to (unsuccessfully) see him out of office. You are responsible for Obama. I would have been responsible for a RINO had they won, but they didn't.