Posted on 01/13/2016 3:46:46 PM PST by conservativejoy
Edited on 01/13/2016 4:06:16 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
Who was Aldo Mario Bellei, and why should Donald Trump care and Harvard Professor Laurence Tribe know? Because Mr. Bellei puts the lie to Donald Trump's attack on the eligibility of Senator Ted Cruz to be president backed up by Professor Tribe's claim that "[t]he Supreme Court has never addressed the issue.
Yes Jewbacca, many are learning about the 1790 “Naturalization Act. Many of those who’d like to keep as many as possible confused don’t mention the footnote in the Congressional Record of the 1790 “Naturalizaton Act”. It was entirely rescinded in 1795 by Madison and Washington. The phrase “natural born citizen” never again appeared in a Congressional Act, and couldn’t, by separation of powers. Its wording may have caused confusion, which is certainly is today. The act didn’t say “is a Natural born Citizen”, it said “considered as” a natural born citizen. Whoever in Congress wrote the Act may have been trying to convey that those born overseas to citizen parents had all the privileges of natural born citizens, even as they were naturalized, the only power granted to Congresss, Article 1 Section 8, “...an Uniform Rule for Naturalization.
Had it not been rescinded Congress would have been allowed to interpret the Constitution, making the Supreme Court an inferior body whose decisions and interpretations could be reversed by acts of Congress.
This entire thread is based upon the assumption that Rogers v. Bellei addresses natural born citizenship. Read it. It only addresses naturalized citizenship. The 14th Amendment doesn’t touch upon, nor mention, natural born citizenship. The author of the citizenship section of the 14th Amendment, Congressman, abolitionist, Judge John Bingham told Congress that natural born citizenship was never doubted: “I find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen….
Many are understandably confused by the 14th Amendment’s decision to eliminate the paperwork and define circumstances wherein a citizen is defined as naturalized at birth. Confusing as it is, confusion which is being capitalized upon by many with different agendas, Citizens Naturalized at Birth by 8 U.S. Code 1401, are not natural born citizen. Congress cannot interpret the Constitution except by amendment.
Obama, Cruz, Rubio, Jindal, and Nikki Haley are all naturalized citizens. And while I think we should approach the Supreme Court to get the interpretation extended to “Foreign born children of Military Citizens”, the bill by that working name, Senate Bill 2678, failed to pass when it was sponsored by Obama and his campaign co-chair Clair McCaskill in February of 2008. Were I in Congress, I would have supported such a measure, but it never got out of Pat Leany’s Senate Judiciary Committee, so McCain too is a naturalized citizen.
It is not the topic of this thread, but why McCain’s eligibility was being supported by Obama’s campaign committee, by SB 2678, and after it failed to pass, by Senate Resolution 511, in April of 2008 is an extra-credit question.
Why would they? There was only one definition of the term at the time they drafted the Constitution. That definition is found in The Law of Nations or the Principles of Natural Law (1758)
>>> If Trump wants to make an issue of it, why hasn’t he filed a lawsuit?
I doubt he would want to do that. It would not serve him well.... However, if he did want to, he would only have to look at all the failed lawsuits (starting with Keyes) to discourage him from doing so.
Besides that, my point was NOT about Trump.
My point was about what the dems will do if and ONCE Cruz gets the GOP nod.
You think the dems would make this an issue now???? HELL NO... republicans are doing a much better job at it than they could ever hope to. RATHER... they would prefer to wait until the GOP would be left without a candidate in the 11th hour.
That’s my point... that is where we are vulnerable.
Are we safe based on precedence and what we think SCOTUS would do??? We are certainly not safe just because a Kenyan got away with it.... and McCain had a far better standing facing the test than Cruz will.
>>> Actually, I believe McCain was born in a Panamanian hospital, but not on base.
I think he sold out to the dems a long time ago, making his birthplace irrelevant.
May I correct your usage and grammar? Totally off topic ...
Maybe you know and see the mistake, I don't want to presume you deliberated over that construction.
We can’t allow Dems to choose our nominee over a perceived lawsuit. It will go nowhere.
I’ll keep that in mind if I ever move to France.
Even if the constitution doesn’t define NBC, it does define citizen. Start there. Art IV, Sec. 2.
Not until after 1907. Prior to that an immigrant woman who married a US citizen did not automatically become a citizen, and there was little practical reason for them to become naturalized. They couldn't vote, couldn't hold property in their own names, etc., and naturalization was a fairly expensive process. So you cannot presume that they were citizens just by virtue of their marriages.
Name calling and personal attacks are the last refuge of someone that doubts their own position. Your man will not be taking taking the oath of the U.S. Presidency on Jan 20, 2017. He will be watching Donald Trump take the oath.
The Law Dictionary
Featuring Black’s Law Dictionary Free Online Legal Dictionary 2nd Ed.
Submit
A
B
C
D
E
F
G
K
L
M
N
O
P
Q
R
S
T
Z
US Law
Law Careers
Mobile
What is NATURAL-BORN?
the term applying to the person who is born in the country where they are a citizen.
Law Dictionary: What is NATURAL-BORN? definition of NATURAL-BORN (Black’s Law Dictionary)
One could say that the definition is somewhat fluid. Not to say that it has no definition, but that the definition changes with time and lack of or fully understanding it..
For example, some people seem to claim today that it means a place. Actually it has no such meaning. If anything it's a birthright. A birthright that can be and often is transferred from parent to child automatically..
My take is that they inserted the word to guarantee a vote. Thus no discussion occurred because everyone knew why the term was there. Some say is was to please John Jay. I am not so sure, but in any case John Jay would not have voluntarily shortchanged citizen rights in favor of security. Especially a dubious benefit.
It was sufficient to have two types of citizen, natural born and naturalized. One requiring a legal procedure and the other automatic.
There would not have been a third category requiring naturalization that is automatic yet only partial rights. That would have fit and did fit the definition of natural born with full rights at the time and especially now.
In any case the original intent here is very important. The original draft did not use the term at all.
It's not the first issue of this kind. Which is why there is a body of work supporting what I have said. There is also some work supporting a differing view.
IMO there appears to be concurrence that Cruz is Natural Born through his natural born mother.
No need to go to France. Just read the first sentence of the our Declaration of Independence.
Note the reference to Natural Law in the first sentence of our Declaration of Independence.
It is crystal clear that the Founding Fathers used the Natural Law definition of 'natural born Citizen' when they wrote Article II. By invoking "The Laws of Nature and Nature's God" the 56 signers of the Declaration incorporated a legal standard of freedom into the forms of government that would follow.
President John Quincy Adams, writing in 1839, looked back at the founding period and recognized the true meaning of the Declaration's reliance on the "Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." He observed that the American people's "charter was the Declaration of Independence. Their rights, the natural rights of mankind. Their government, such as should be instituted by the people, under the solemn mutual pledges of perpetual union, founded on the self-evident truth's proclaimed in the Declaration."
The Constitution, Vattel, and “Natural Born Citizen”: What Our Framers Knew
The Laws of Nature and of Nature's God: The True Foundation of American Law
The Supreme Court of the United States has never applied the term “natural born citizen” to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”.
lol....No I did not deliberate....lol
It looks to me like this is going to remain an issue, and I am not sure how it can be resolved or if it can be resolved.
I am a person who supports Ted Cruz, I like him, I think he’d make a fine president. I don’t think he’s perfect, I have my issues with him over the Corker Bill, but I set that aside. I would vote for him to be president.
All that being said, can I say with 100.00% confidence that I am certain he will not be declared ineligible at some point in time?
I can’t ;/
You do know that we have had several presidents in our history that did not meet that standard, right?
_______________
Understood. But in modern day they need to be born of American parents & live here the majority of their lives. It’s not to much to ask. The voters are turning against Ted...and rightly so.
The local Hawaii newspaper had a notice of his birth at the time of his birth. The real question is not where Obama was born but the true identity of his father.
"infer" and "deduce" are forms of reasoning from a premise to a conclusion.
A "that" can't "infer," because only a person can perform reasoning.
Grammar Nazi mode /off
That was to clearout or firewall the British residents.
Use your head. It is not pertainent to Ted cruz or anyone else alive today. It had to do with the early days/years after the signing.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.