Hamilton!

Splice Today ^ | December 4, 2015 | Todd Seavey

[OddLane]

The monthly New York City libertarian gathering called the Junto has seen arguments such as one between Wall Street analyst David Stockman and investor and Junto founder Victor Niederhoffer over whether long-term stock-watchers should be optimistic or, like a growing number of Wall Streeters these days, should be learning prepper and survivalist skills. Not long ago, I wrote of a Junto debate on whether the government should be small or non-existent.

Last night, the Junto saw what might be considered the “retro” version of that debate: whether Alexander Hamilton was a hero in the cause of liberty or, as some libertarians contend, the statist, big-government snake in the Revolutionary garden (at least by 18th-century Anti-Federalist standards).

The debaters were Michael Malice, author of the darkly amusing book Dear Reader about North Korea, and popular libertarian historian and podcaster Tom Woods, with Malice defending Hamilton. Malice’s opening gambit was the very pragmatic reminder that Hamilton had risen from Caribbean poverty and abandonment by his father to become a teenage entrepreneur—itself a reminder that the U.S. is the land where people are free to remake themselves...

[Publius]

Federalist/Anti-Federalist ping. A short, but thought provoking, article.

[TBP]

Hamilton was a statist by the standards of the time (as opposed to the people like Jefferson and Madison), but they’d all be fierce defenders of limited government and conservative quasi-libertarians by today’s standards. The arguments at that time were around a much narrower range.

[Don W]

Have you and BtD finished the book on the Federalist Papers yet?

[Vaquero]

It’s like in the past half century you have arguably a somewhat liberal, JFK, being more conservative than half the republicans in congress. (Of course compared to FDR he was a rock ribbed conservative)

It’s hard to figure these guys out in the 18th century. Things are so different.

[TBP]

The Federalists (the party of Adams and Hamilton) were more Big Government than the Democratic-Republicans (the party of Jefferson and Madison), but it’s something like an argument between today’s traditionalist conservatives and conservatives of a more libertarian bent. ALL of them would be conservative tending more or less to libertarian by today’s standards.

[KC Burke]

It is interesting that just as many historians have looked on Adams as the indispensable founder, Forrest McDonald picks Hamilton to focus on in his works.

[Talisker]

Hamilton was a snake. He believed in debt for the country. He was the first bankster.

[Vaquero]

Hamilton was a snake. He believed in debt for the country. He was the first bankster.

That BASTARD! Oh wait.....he really was.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Jefferson and his pals were pro-Jacobin. He was also notoriously heterodox in his religious beliefs. The Federalists were anti-Jacobin, anti-subversive, and the bulwark of protecting religion.

George Washington must have thought so to, as he was a Federalist in all but name. And that means that Abraham Lincoln was not the radical break with the old republic that the Tertium Quids make him out to be.

[ek_hornbeck]

The Federalists (the party of Adams and Hamilton) were more Big Government than the Democratic-Republicans (the party of Jefferson and Madison), but it’s something like an argument between today’s traditionalist conservatives and conservatives of a more libertarian bent.

I'm happy to see that some people get this.

It gets tiresome to read that Hamilton and the Federalists were Proto-New Deal Democrats or Proto-Obamas because they supported "big government." The "big government" that Hamilton and the Federalists supported was a protective tariff for America's nascent industries and Federal investment in infrastructure, hardly radical socialist positions. In fact, they were criticized by Anti-Federalists like Jefferson as reactionaries (either Jefferson or Madison accused Hamilton of being a British-style Mercantilist and wanting a monarchy minus the monarch - this puts the Federalists to the Right of the anti-Federalists, not on the Left).

In any case, if only today's political spectrum were made up of Hamiltonian Federalists (traditional conservatives) versus Jeffersonian Anti-Federalists (libertarians), we'd be a big step ahead of what today's Republicans and Democrats have to offer.

[OddLane]

The problem I have with Jefferson-beyond the failure to live up to his principles once he was in the White House-is the fact that he was at heart a Rousseauian, which-to me, at least-is the philosophy responsible for almost all of the philosophical disasters that have unfolded over the past 2 centuries.

[Vaquero]

You must pay tax on all liquor made. Did not go over well with the free trading distillers in wester PA.

[x]

+1

[M Kehoe]

Thanks for the ping.

5.56mm

[Loud Mime]

Hamilton the musical?

What is he talking about?

[OddLane]

Tom Woods has a summary.