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It's a pleasure to have a serious reply instead of the more usual digital ejaculations of the troll base.

My observation serves to indicate motive, whether there was premeditation in fact: If one assumes (for the argument)that this battle was a planned event, one does not engage without a cost assessment and an exit strategy, neither of which can ignore the force-majeure which obviously surrounds your forces and commands not only the field, but the way out. These clubs will inherently have battlefield brass, and recon personnel capable of sniper and flanking capability...

This is one of the things that do not make sense. It presents as an abandonment of reasonable procedure. I gather that fuckups and other stupidities happen, but this should have been obvious from the moment anyone rolled into the parking lot. Armored cars and shock troops are not the same thing as a couple of squad cars getting their Sunday fill of tits and donuts, especially when the area's been turned into a visual recording studio. The air should have been lit up with "WTF dude I don't like this" from the get go.

The LEOs report returning fire, but do not report any attempted flank maneuver, or fire from behind their lines... Harassment which would be the only means of opening an escape route (failed or otherwise). That indicates to me that there was no serious planning.

I concur. The firefight has all the elements of a successful ambush conducted by a larger surrounding force upon a much smaller element not in array or readiness.

Add to that the fact that these guys brought their women, that some came not wearing their cuts, and that many of the members of the main clubs involved were out of place (inside eating burgers and quaffing beers), and I find no indication of premeditation at all.

I wholeheartedly agree, with a single caveat.

Were I investigating this as a club officer, or merely as an interested patriot looking for a motivating hand - I would be asking questions about that rolled-over foot in the parking lot. I have reviewed no evidence nor have I read any statements other than it appears that foot initiated the entire chain of events. At the end of that chain of events, nine are dead and over a score wounded and mass arrests and the entire frustrating, enraging, tragic and murderous spectacle is a fait accompli.

If I wished to instigate such an outcome - whether I were a cynical law enforcement agent or an ambitious club officer or a desperate informant or any other entity - a foot like that is precisely how I would trigger it. Reliable, tiny, adjustable, provocative, predictable, deniable, reasonable, achievable, recoverable, believable.

That the brawl happened seems to be without question, but I think it caught everyone by surprise.

Everyone but a few people.

We don't know who they are yet. But someone is gratified with obtaining perhaps not everything they wanted, but enough of what they needed.

You say: “Were I investigating this as a club officer, or merely as an interested patriot looking for a motivating hand - I would be asking questions about that rolled-over foot in the parking lot. I have reviewed no evidence nor have I read any statements other than it appears that foot initiated the entire chain of events. At the end of that chain of events, nine are dead and over a score wounded and mass arrests and the entire frustrating, enraging, tragic and murderous spectacle is a fait accompli.

“If I wished to instigate such an outcome - whether I were a cynical law enforcement agent or an ambitious club officer or a desperate informant or any other entity - a foot like that is precisely how I would trigger it. Reliable, tiny, adjustable, provocative, predictable, deniable, reasonable, achievable, recoverable, believable.”

You imply more than you state or are willing to share. Inside information? conclusions drawn?

I don’t know what you are getting at here, RT, about the biker’s foot, or don-o, about the involvement of ATF. Please share as is possible.

In the mean time, based on the information I have, and with which you seem to agree, Prospect (Cossack, but former Bandido) and Bandido President Martinez, were the immediate cause of the confrontation leading to 9 dead, 18 more wounded, and 177 arrested.

Prospect watching the Cossack bikes; Martinez rolling up with his Dallas Bandidos, rolling over Prospect’s foot, the precipitating event.

Neither Prospect nor Martinez were undercover, at least, not the guy in the red boots. Cliff the Prospect, is said to be paralyzed from the waist down. Martinez went to jail.

If you’ve got something that the rest of us do not, whether information or conclusions, please let us in on it.