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To: BroJoeK
I have never denied that Lincoln was committed to peace - and to a peaceful compromise of the issues dividing the North and South. Nor have I ever denied that the leaders of the South acted recklessly and foolishly not only when they seceded but also when they fired on Ft Sumter. Secession was a rash as Hitler's declaration of war against the US.

Davis and his very reckless followers bear almost all of the responsibility for the outbreak of the war. Their actions were absolutely inexcusable. Without seriously and carefully thinking through the situation, they led the South into a war that could not be won.
There is a section in Clavell’s novel SHOGUN when Toranauga’s (I think I spelled that correctly) supporters urge him to declare war on the Regent and the Council. Toranauga dismisses the suggestion. To himself, he laments the rashness of his supporters. He notes that for him to take such a reckless step puts not only his own life at risk but also the lives and property of all who support him. He has, he tells himself, no right to take such an action.
I only wish Davis and the rest had such wisdom.

My only (apparent) disagreement is the contention that slavery was the cause of the war. Slavery was an issue, a serious one to be sure, but in 1861, only the Abolitionists (and Lincoln wasn't one) demanded an end to slavery. Lets not forget that William Lloyd Garrison was so dismayed at the prospect of abolition that in the late 1850’s (1858-59, I think) he actually burned a copy of the US Constitution.
Also, Garrison quarreled bitterly with Joseph Jay (the son of John Jay) when told by Joseph Jay - who was a major Constitutional scholar in his own right - that slavery was embedded in the Constitution and could not be abolished except by amendment.

No rational reason existed for the South to secede. The South had everything to lose and nothing to gain - except a phantom independence that would have been difficult to maintain.

453 posted on 08/18/2015 11:08:49 AM PDT by quadrant (1o)
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To: quadrant; BroJoeK; x

It looks like y’all may be talking past one another.

Most pro-unionists claim that the cause of the Civil War was slavery because the rebels themselves said that it was - in their rhetoric, in their declarations, and in their actions. It wasn’t that anyone (abolitionists or otherwise) was ordering the south to give up their slaves - in this very thread we’ve seen plenty of evidence that this wasn’t taking place - but that the fire-eaters of the south had seized upon the pretext of Lincoln’s election to execute their plan to disband the United States.

Of course they say other things, but those are all rationalizations meant to excuse their behavior or salve their consciences.

Ultimately I agree with you - no rational reason existed for the South to secede.


456 posted on 08/18/2015 12:24:57 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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