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To: DiogenesLamp
What was New York importing? That alone is sufficient reason to suspect that the South was paying for most of the government.

The lion's share of all foreign goods, if tariff collection figures are any judge. If the South was paying for most of them then why weren't they delivered to southern ports?

We know the South was getting a good chunk of it for Cotton, Tobacco and Sugar. What was the North selling to Europe?

Cotton, tobacco, and sugar mostly, with grains and other agricultural goods making up the balance. You think it was Southerners brokering the cotton and selling it to foreign buyers? Nonsense. Plantation owners sold the cotton to brokers, who sold it to buyers both in the U.S. and overseas, and who paid the plantation owners for their crop with currency. That cotton, tobacco, and sugar were then shipped from southern ports, ports that were not used to import much in the way of goods, to Europe and points north.

If the first bit be true, than this second bit would seemingly follow, or at least be not far off.

Not necessarily. All one has to do is look at tariff collections for FY1863. Tariff collections were over $102 million dollars, for a year without cotton exports and without Southerners consuming all those vast quantities of imported goods. How was that possible?

138 posted on 07/22/2015 11:38:25 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg; PeaRidge
The lion's share of all foreign goods, if tariff collection figures are any judge. If the South was paying for most of them then why weren't they delivered to southern ports?

Freeper PeaRidge explained this issue quite concisely on the other thread. I cannot believe that you missed it. On the other hand, I can thoroughly believe you simply skipped over it, which would be why you seem unfamiliar with the material.

Apparently the Northern States got Federal laws passed forbidding Foreign ships from carrying cargo from one Domestic port to another.

The Europe/US shipping trade evolved accordingly with ships dropping most of their cargoes in New York, and Domestic ships handling it from there.

Inefficient? Yes, but certainly enriching of the Northern Interests who used government to force patronization of their goods and services, not at all unlike the cozy relationship some corporations (G.E. Cough Cough) with Government today.

New York was the most Major port of the Period. It oversaw shipping all the way to Chicago, and controlled Huge swaths of territory.

Cotton, tobacco, and sugar mostly, with grains and other agricultural goods making up the balance. You think it was Southerners brokering the cotton and selling it to foreign buyers? Nonsense. Plantation owners sold the cotton to brokers, who sold it to buyers both in the U.S. and overseas, and who paid the plantation owners for their crop with currency. That cotton, tobacco, and sugar were then shipped from southern ports, ports that were not used to import much in the way of goods, to Europe and points north.

Getting their cut on both ends of the Horse, eh? Yeah, I can see where they would be upset about that gravy train coming to a stop.

Not necessarily. All one has to do is look at tariff collections for FY1863. Tariff collections were over $102 million dollars, for a year without cotton exports and without Southerners consuming all those vast quantities of imported goods. How was that possible?

Tariff rates increased, Union spending borrowed money to buy more European goods. I don't know, could be several factors involved.

Do you have a breakdown of what was imported? That would go a long way to explaining how it got paid for. I imagine War material was probably in high demand about that time.

187 posted on 07/22/2015 1:07:51 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DoodleDawg
"The lion's share of all foreign goods, if tariff collection figures are any judge..."

Tariffs were collected at over 50 different locations. According to Federal Law, the payments could be delayed up to three years. That would allow an importer/broker time to transport the goods to the buyer, collect the money, and pay the tariff.

So goods entering in New York might be paid much later after a buyer in another part of the country paid.

The US Treasury tariff data due to these rules is not a reliable data point for determining who actually paid the tariff.

Not necessarily. All one has to do is look at tariff collections for FY1863. Tariff collections were over $102 million dollars, for a year without cotton exports and without Southerners consuming all those vast quantities of imported goods. How was that possible?

The entire overseas trade changed drastically in 1861. With no more cotton for northern mills, they began to import from China and India. Lincoln instituted expanded tariffs which included these goods.

Also massive food amounts formerly imported from the South stopped. Food was now imported.

All sorts of war material was now being imported. Keep in mind that the government did not manufacture arms, and importers paid large tariffs.

The most important issue in all this is hidden. At the time of secession, there was not nearly enough specie on deposit in the Treasury or banks to maintain trade. Had it not been for war, the government would not have been able to finance much. Instead, once Europe saw that Lincoln was going to seize Southern assets, the lending began.

And that was the reason that Lincoln sent the Navy to Charleston.

204 posted on 07/22/2015 1:44:32 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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