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To: rockrr
The Tenth Amendment provides IIRC:

Those powers not delegated to the United States by this constitution nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people.

The power of secession was not granted by the constitution to the United States. The very idea of the whole nation being able to secede makes no sense whatsoever. The constitution does not prohibit states from seceding. Ergo, the states have the power respectively to secede and Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia did exactly that.

Fixed it.

483 posted on 07/07/2015 6:30:22 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline: Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society/Rack 'em Danno!)
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To: BlackElk
From another post but applies here as well:

Yes, that is the 10th Amendment but it does not apply here because the appropriate powers were enumerated to the legislative and judicial branches of government. This is the way the country was wired, first in 1777 with the Articles of Confederation, and again in 1788 with the ratification of the United States Constitution.

Article I (Article 1 - Legislative) of the Constitution spells out duties and responsibilities of Congress.

Section 10

1: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Thus no states may enter into independent confederacies - only Congress possesses that authority.

Article II (Article 2 - Executive) establishes the role of the executive (president).

Article III (Article 3 - Judicial) defines the duties and responsibilities of the judicial branch - essentially the Supreme Court.

Section 2

1: The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;—to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;—to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;—to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;—to Controversies between two or more States;—between a State and Citizens of another State —between Citizens of different States, —between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

Thus the Constitution grants the Supreme Court (the collective states) authority and jurisdiction over disputes between states.

Article IV (Article 4 - States' Relations) defines the relationship of the states to the whole.

Section 3

1: New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

Thus it is up to Congress to admit or expel states. In the event of a circumstance such as happened with West Virginia, it is up to Congress plus the affected states to make such a division. Individual states do not possess the authority to do so - not legally at any rate.

To recap: yes it is a case of the federal government telling the states what they can and cannot do - that is the way the law was designed. In this case unilateral secession, that is, the secession of states without congressional approval, is explicitly forbidden. No, it doesn't go against the 10th amendment because the Constitution granted the appropriate powers to both the Congress to define and organize the states and to the Supreme Court to adjudicate disputes between the states.

As for rising up in revolt - if you do so you had best be able to prove your case against an alleged "dictatorial government" or you're likely going to have a rough go of it. The Colonialists did; the insurrectionists didn't.


484 posted on 07/07/2015 6:44:14 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: BlackElk
The constitution does not prohibit states from seceding. Ergo, the states have the power respectively to secede

Article 10 of the Constitution explicitly prohibits states from raising their own armies, negotiating treaties/alliances/trade agreements with foreign nations. If they are prohibited from having the powers of a sovereign nation, the clear implication is that they are not potential sovereign nations. If they can't negotiate their own treaties and trade agreements, the implication that they can't secede at will seems pretty strong.

496 posted on 07/08/2015 1:13:20 PM PDT by ek_hornbeck
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