Posted on 06/14/2015 8:00:04 AM PDT by don-o
Four weeks after the deadly Twin Peaks shooting melee that left nine bikers dead, 177 others in jail with million-dollar bonds and way more questions than answers about biker subculture, due process in Waco and conflicting crime narratives, the two sides in all this are only hardening in their positions. In short, a microcosm of the American way.
Some vigorously support local law enforcement. They say the facts that bikers came to Waco’s Twin Peaks restaurant well-armed and that search warrants reveal many wore colors of motorcycle gangs associated by the FBI and Texas Department of Public Safety with criminal activity, organized and otherwise, justifies the bikers’ incarceration and high bonds.
anip
The Trib may well have to revise its own estimation that the Twin Peaks dustup won’t leave a stigma attached to Waco such as that spawned by the 51-day Branch Davidian siege of 1993, which sparked wild conspiracy theories while leaving Waco with a black eye that had only recently begun to disappear. With legal questions revolving around interpretations of the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth and Eighth amendments — including the right to wear motorcycle gang colors if you so choose — there’s enough constitutional grist in this complicated saga to keep state and federal courts busy for years. And that’s allowing also for a conspiracy theory or two. It’s the American way.
(Excerpt) Read more at wacotrib.com ...
I beg to differ. Right before Finny accussed me of projecting this is what he/she/it wrote.
You are either as gullible as a kindergartner, or ... something worse, a traitor. I don't know which.
I know it is annoying to have somebody screw up the reverberation in your echo chamber.
While gas is an interesting option it would have denied cover to those hiding in the restaurant. From the recorded radio comms, that are in public view, they treated it like an active shooter situation. That means aggressively pursuing anybody posing a deadly threat in that area and quickly moving to clear the entire location.
If your kid is in flight training, I have a couple tidbits of advice. A lot of the primary instructors are helo guys and will try to tell your kid helos is the way to go. Tell him not to listen. He should fly the fastest, loudest, most deadly platform that the Corps will let him fly. If he has jet grades, tell him to select jets.
He tells me that the top man in class gets his choice of platform. Everyone else states a preference, but need of the Corps is primary.
You stated cops firing into a mob. Where is that documented?
People were fighting, shooting, knifing. I choose to call the gathering of bad actors a mob.
Police have themselves stated that they fired 12 rounds. They did not say that they fired into the air.
You tell me what they were shooting AT.
Defending the 170 bystanders that were arrested, or themselves? They were slightly outnumbered.
I am interested to learn if they made the best call on how to accomplish that goal. It’s possible they made a bad situation worse. It’s possible they were absolutely flawless and totally justified.
The ultimate truth is probably in the middle.
But, again, my main interest is in what transpired and continues AFTER the shooting stopped.
NOW, will you withdraw your accusation that I make stuff up?
“Sniper” is such a limited term. Why not try “rifle equipped officers overlooking the restaurant.”
These types will quibble about explosions vs “rapidly expanding gas” or tank vs armored personnel carrier in court.
Unwise choices should not be cause for arrest but often is. Get caught at an illegal establishment and everyone is arrested. Live in a crack house or with an armed felon and bad things may happen and yo may find yourself under suspicion. Many of these so called innocents want to appear bad or intimidating, some one just accepted them as they wished to be perceived. I’m saying you cannot be surprised that such a thing would happen. I’ve never understood why someone need to appear a faux villain (aka biker gang member) to support the troops.
Yes, it is guilt by association but think of this, all these people who thought Obamma was something special should have realized that nothing special can emerge from that cesspool of Chicago politics. That is guilt by association. Yes, there is a chance there is a virgin in the whore house, but it is slim.
I am going to continue to insist that there must be a sharp and indelible line drawn between unwise and illegal.
Most believe it is unwise to consume mass quantities of soda pop. What did many of us here say when NYC moved to make it illegal?
Yes and no. It has been policy for decades that there is a jet cut. You have to be in the top 50% of your class to go jets, even if the service is hurting for jet pilots. From week to week the slots vary quite a bit.
Ya think? SIX cop cars, clearly marked and plainly visible?
I'm stunned that so many people actually believe that even one or two of these so-called "criminal" bikers would be so stupid, let alone a crowd of so-called bad-ass "professional" criminals of organized criminal enterprises. HELLO???? Anybody home?????
Don-o, Bandit, there's only ONE THING you need to know, and it is a fact that is not in dispute: Only one third of the 177 arrested even had a criminal record. ONLY ONE THIRD!
Only someone very, very out of touch with reality would entertain the notion that an even half-way hardened criminal over the age of 23, let alone a dangerous bad-ass-biker type criminal, wouldn't have a criminal record as long as your arm. TOTALLY LUDICROUS. The fact that so very few even had a criminal record is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW.
The rest of it -- half a dozen marked cop cars in plain view, conflicting reports of gunfire sounds, the official police story changing dramatically in the first days, lack of bruising on the mug shots of those arrested, the MILLION DOLLAR bail, the extreme vagueness of "weapons found at the scene" that include perfectly legal items --
-- all of those things are only details. ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW is that only a third of these supposed dangerous hardened criminals, even had prior records. -- even ignoring all of that
What is happening here is people like Bandit missing the forest because they are so carefully considering each tree.
Rey, the reality is that it is a LIE that the majority of these folks were criminally inclined — you are FAILING to see that LIE because you are buying into the costume.
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Here's a little piece of info from Chief Brent Stroman's Friday brief. Sitting in their vehicles...Really? In light of the intel Swanton claimed to have that bad actors were planning to jump ugly?
They are sitting in their vehicles?
This is the most important story in America right now, by far. All the racial crap is divide-and-conquer bread and circuses. MANY discussions on other forums about this major story of Waco are HIJACKED by the pre-packaged racial distraction with questions like, "Well, all these guys were white! What if they were black!" and it effectively diverts discussion of TRUTH.
This Waco thing is as serious a hinge-point in American history as 911 -- our world changed profoundly the instant 911 happened, though it was very high profile. The only difference here in terms of profound changes is that it is low profile. The gut-wrenching thing is that right under our noses, it looks like these authoritarian tyrants in government are getting away with this Waco massacre, and THAT IS WHAT IT WAS, pretty obviously, but many people are straining mightily to ignore the fact that the Emporor is naked.
The official narrative of criminal enterprise-savvy bad-ass bikers shooting competing bad-ass bikers in a territorial club dispute in broad daylight on a Sunday brunch schedule in a pre-publicized open meeting to all clubs and independents in a crowded restaurant/shopping center parking lot WHERE SIX MARKED POLICE CARS WERE CLEARLY VISIBLE, is a story for only the most willing of DUPES and boot-lickers.
It ain't rocket science, but it is a frightening lesson in human nature. So many, many cowards afraid of being called conspiracy theorists, so AFRAID of being ridiculed that they will check their brains at the door to avoid it.
I am still, I suppose, “on the fence” as to what actually went down on 5/17 at the scene.
The piece, from the Chief, that his officers were in their cars, is a crumb that raises the possibility of a panicked reaction that they had not war gamed for.
What if....the game plan had included intense surveillance on this public gathering (coupled with intel from their inside u/c) and at the first sign of trouble - which Swanton said they were expecting, (say the report that Cossacks were forming on the patio or there was a tussle in a bathroom), they blared over a bullhorn
FREEZE! EVERYBODY GET ON THE GROUND!!
I agree with the points about the nonsense of the bad boys coming intent on doing rough business in public. Some obviously did bring attitudes that created trouble. The mass roundup is an outrage. The excessive bail in on its face, unconstitutional.
The collection of cell phones is highly suspicious as is the non-release of autopsy reports.
Many angles to this.
But the bottom line is that it isn't about what went down -- it's about being fed a scenario of what went down that is like being fed a scenario from straight-faced official sources that the Easter Bunny robbed a bank and used Santa's Sleigh for a get-away. One doesn't know who robbed the bank or how he got away, but one sure knows that it wasn't the Easter Bunny and Rudolph.
It's a fine distinction, and a crucial one. THANKS don-o for keeping these thread alive. I agree with Travis -- this is hands-down the most profound domestic news story on the radar, and it is being ignored by people WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER, including stalwart patriots many on FR.
IT ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE. However, it does require due diligence, effort, and personal responsibility.
Let me see if I understand, and please, be assured, this is not out of any animosity, I wish to understand. I bought into the costume? Isn’t that the idea? They want to be thought of as mildly scary and someone took them at face value. I see it with these kids imitating gangster rappers; they dress and act like real bad guys and are upset that they are judged by their appearance.
The other thing I notice is that if you dress nice, act like a gentleman the odds are that you will be treated better than a fat guy in tats, leathers and riding a Harley. Sure, people should be judged by their character but lacking a character o-meter while on patrol officers tend to go by appearance.
May I also opine that wanting to dress like a bad guy, sport tattoos or piercings and dressing in leather does say something about your character.
Have you seen the recent photo exhibit of the Maori gang in New Zealand. They tattoo their bodies and faces, many of them white supremacist in nature, many sport Nazi paraphernalia and tattoos, surely these are not people you would invite to thanksgiving dinner in your home, going to extremes to avoid judging a book by its cover? Don’t you think these guys want to be judged by their cover?
“So what will your response be when the autopsies the come back? “
And just where are those autopsies? You can’t tell me that they are not long done. They should be released to the public, but they aren’t so what are we left to believe? Nine dead with the cops already admitting that they killed 4 of them. At the end of the day I will be surprised if at least 8 and maybe all 9 died at the hands of the police.
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