Posted on 06/01/2015 10:43:47 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
Yeah, yeah.
I know the standard spiel about how the narrow tip supposedly allows them to be packed in tighter in the Roman vessel of the time.
Don’t buy it. No way that is as efficient overall to load, lift, carry, or stow than a flat-bottom (or better yet, a flat-side) container. So, if it fits better in a rounded hull vessel, how does it fit in a granary or warehouse? Or on the dock, the cart, or the barge?
A flatter bigger bottom would mean more ways to break and lose the liquid contents when setting it down too hard or onto an uneven surface. Pointed bottom can be reinforced with more clay, maybe with added straw for strength, and makes sure through its very design that no one can just leave it sitting somewhere without first having to put it into some kind of protective rack. So the design is protective of the liquid contents both physically and psychologically.
I’m with you Robert. The design doesn’t make sense to me as a Mechanical Engineer either. But there is a reason. God knows there are a gazillion of those things on the ocean floor, so the design is no accident.
I have wondered the same thing but suspected that Romans at least partially solved the problem by meting out severe whippings to anyone who broke an amphora while handling it.
How many lashes would you get for spilling 80 gal. of the governor’s wine, vinegar or olive oil on the dock? lol
They were probably pointed so as to insure that they were stacked in an upright position using a rack or other means, like soft clay or sand in the bottom of the ship. The sealing methods were probably not that great at the time, so if they were tilted they would leak or become tainted. ...........just a guess.............
Just looked it up on Wiki:
Neck amphorae were commonly used in the early history of ancient Greece, but were gradually replaced by the one-piece type from around the 7th century BC onward. Most were produced with a pointed base to allow upright storage by embedding in soft ground, such as sand.
Amphora - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmphoraWikipedia
Clay, terra-cotta, mud straw reinforced brick were tried and tested technologies at the time. Easy to shape, waterproof,with the round shap lending strength, and finally cheap to make.
Name other materials and processes available in that period that satisfy those specs.
Squared corners of what material? What fasteners that would withstand the liquid loads? What waterproofing was available at the time that would not affect the taste of wines or oils? Not much market for bitumen flavored wine or oil is there? Okay... bring up Greek retsina and you might make a case.
;>)
And finally the narrow necks and spouts are quickly and effectively sealed with the wax plugs. Minimize the edge length and you minimize the potential for intrusion of air and spillage.
All in all an elegant solution proven out over an extended period of time and the market forces of that era. Simple economics 101.
Greek art shows the tapered amphorae sitting in metal ring stands as well as women carrying shorter smaller vessels on their shoulders and heads.
Right. I’m agreeing they (sort of) fit) - with the “six-pack” type of holder for thepointed end.
But the wasted space (between and around the amphora inside the hull) is more than 5x the volume inside the bottles!
They probably stuffed the intermediate areas with other cargo whenever possible, and straw or other stuff to keep them from knocking together in rough seas.............
[ But the wasted space (between and around the amphora inside the hull) is more than 5x the volume inside the bottles! ]
You could always pack in grain around them racks.
Wide base will break more easily. A roundish container with small ends is stronger.
It is said that Phoenicians discovered America, so who knows. I mean, the Aztecs said white skinned people from the east are GODS.
Like the shape of a bird's egg. The conical end can take more impact than the sides.
They didn’t leak; had they leaked, they’d have never made it even a few miles. Besides the exterior pitch, they were built to remain tight while being flexible in the rise and fall of the water.
sorry, I read it as loose grain used as base for amphorae, not as grain in jars.
Yeah, the waterproofed plugs retained integrity even after being submerged for so long.
Well I’ll be darned. Have got Marx’s Shipwrecks in the Americas sitting on the table right next to me and was re-reading a bit last night.
IIRC, Marx also said about the amphorae finds that some of them would be brought up in nets and that fishermen would destroy them to prevent snagging them again.
Have not some building ruins included round holes in shelves or worktops where the containers could be placed? Kind of like a big cup holder. Convenient in a home or storefront, tavern or anywhere you needed to dip out a cupful at a time and it wouldn’t be knocked over.
Would seem like the stevedores and warehousemen or anybody else handling these things would grab the pointed end with one hand and handle with the other and heave them onto a shoulder.
Something else about these clay containers. If some that were NOT glazed were aboard ship then ropes could be afixed and one could be placed into the sea and water would pass through to the interior and maybe produce drinking water by filtering out most of the salt.
Might be somewhat brackish but I’d give that a try as a supplemental supply to the shipboard stores. Kinda the reverse of a garden pot.
Like that.
DeGaulle didn’t discriminate, did he? He was a pain in the @$$ to everyone.
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