Posted on 03/11/2015 8:39:53 AM PDT by knarf
Not one of us is fit to judge another's soul. If a person claims to be born again and exhibits no reasons to doubt the claim, then I will take him at his word.
Actually, Cruz is a Southern Baptist.
Aren’t you something of an atheist, or non-Christian?
Catholics that chastise Sola Scriptura always offer other sources that more often than not, support the scriptures ... interesting
Did you read the article before you joined in with them?
It is by RightWing Watch, "A project of People For the American Way dedicated to monitoring and exposing the activities of the right-wing movement."
I disagree that I am changing the thread. The thread is "Is Ted Cruz born again". And by post six on the thread people were asserting that he would be a better President by virtue of this fact. (SoConPubbie). I don't think I'm alone in viewing "born again" as an exclusively Protestant description of many of their various sects beliefs. (it's a boundary that encloses lots of Christian sects, but leaves out others, the largest of which are the Catholics.) Implicitly it is excluding Catholics. So the topic is implied in the thread itself, not something I am adding to it.
So, they question is right there at the start. Apparently many Protestants feel that Born Again (Evangelical Protestant) beliefs make for better Presidents than non Born Again Christians (that is: Catholics). (might be rational and even correct, but has been not been explained in this thread).
That is not what is being talked about here.
Self-proclaimed claims are not reliable, particularly from politicians.
Anyone can say anything about anything ... and politicians are the worst about this. I cannot believe anyone does not understand this and it has to be spelled out to them.
Cruz made a claim about himself. I take it at face value.
The other guy is NOT HELPING Cruz (or conservatives), if that’s what he thinks he is doing.
"Crusader Troll" needs to be added to the FReeper Dictionary of Trolls:
One who attempts to cause damage by pitting members of different religions against one another. (I have a feeling we will be seeing more examples of this type of trolling, as the election gets closer.)
As far as I'm concerned- Ted Cruz being a Christian is an enhancement, not a detriment. (The article is a hit piece on Cruz. It attacks him for being Christian.) Hopefully no one will fall for this.
You thought the Ted Cruz is Catholic and claimed that Evangelicals wouldn’t support a Catholic, although in the primaries Catholic Santorum did better with Evangelicals, than with Catholic voters.
You are something of an anti-Christian judging by your posting history, so what do you care what conservatives think about Christ?
Freerepublic is owned by what is probably a born again Christian, and freerepublic endorsed a Catholic for the 2012 primary, a primary which saw Santorum challenging that Catholic. here for favorability.
You have an anti-Christian agenda that you want to push, but it would be best if you not do it to hijack Cruz threads.
Is TNoldman “the other guy”If so, all he said was “”Americans want a true Christian in charge of our Christian Nation. A “born again Christian” sounds good to me. Praise the Lord. Amen.””
You responded with “”Anyone can claim to be a born again Christian. Anyone.””
How is your post helping anyone, and what were you trying to imply about Cruz?
I may have thought Ted Cruz was Catholic, given his background I think it’s a reasonable mistake. As he himself said “”I come from a family that has been Roman Catholic for generations,” Ted Cruz admitted, “but my parents converted while living in Texas and raised me Southern Baptist.”
I stand by my belief that many Evangelicals strongly prefer voting for other Evangelicals. I think comments on this thread bear out that view. As do many other comments made for the almost 20 years I’ve been here. I find that interesting, and a bit mysterious, and was trying to have someone explain it to me.
I am not “anti-Christian” in any sense. I was raised Catholic, and educated in mostly Protestant schools. I go to church with my dear mother as often as I can.
I believe that both the Catholic Church and the Protestant churches have been instrumental in most of the improvements in human life, since their inception during the life of Christ. (Of course, evil has been done in their name or even by various churches, including the Catholics, at various times. But the good far outweighs the bad taken as a whole).
I don’t believe religion should be banned from the public square, or references to God removed from our money, buildings, etc. I think organizations pushing for this are idiotic and un-American.
Santorum did very well in the primaries in 2012, including in very Protestant states, but I suspect part of that was that the Mormon’s religion was even more suspect to many voters. But still that’s a good point that refutes the idea that Protestants don’t want to vote for Catholics.
I wasn’t aware that Free Republic endorsed anyone one for the 2012 Primary season, and I’m not sure what that has to do with the topic. Good for them.
I’m not thread hijacking. The whole thread is about this issue, of Cruz’s “Born Again” status. (As I’ve explained above.)
I think Cruz is one of the most interesting candidates in the race, like a lot of people here. I haven’t decided if I will support him, but I certainly would not be unhappy if he won the nomination.
You're having a problem staying on the subject. You ask me a question and I answered it. You take off on another tangent.
Did you read the article before you joined in with them?
It is by RightWing Watch, “A project of People For the American Way dedicated to monitoring and exposing the activities of the right-wing movement.”
Which “single issue” are you attacking conservatives on?
LOL, you sure have an anti-Evangelical spin to everything, no wonder you didn’t know that Cruz was an evangelical, or that Santorum did so well with Evangelicals, or that Evangelicals voted for Romney in the 2012 election, at a higher percentage than any other voting group or religion, or denomination.
As you described yourself, “”I’m not a religious person, myself.””
Why would you think either men, (Clinton, Obama) judging by their actions and the sinful policy positions that they supported were born again?
I take "Born Again" as meaning a profession of belief in a set of Protestant teachings. My references to Clinton and Obama was to their self-professed beliefs. Which were the point of this article. A bunch of people were asked by a Protestant leader if they were Born Again. Rand was dancing around, and got asked quite directly: "Are you Born Again".
So it appears to me that self-professed Born Agains can vary in their beliefs and goodness, all the way from near-saints to probably horrible sinners and criminals.
Can someone be Born Again and support abortion? Well for sure they can "SAY" they are born again, but your claim is that they are lying about their own religious beliefs.
You say: "You judge a person by the fruit of the tree of their life, not just by what they say."
To some extent I agree with that. I certainly can judge people who are creepy, liars, and the like. Obama and Clinton fit into this category. But I would be very reluctant to go from saying "I think that politician X is pond-scum and would never support him" to saying ".. and therefore they are not a Christian, or not Born Again, or lacking in God's Grace".
Maybe that is in part due to my Catholic upbringing. Perhaps because of the great age of our Church and the many mistakes it has made that we are reluctant (especially lay people) to tell others that they are "not really Catholic".
I pretty much take everyone at their word on what they say they are, so if someone says that they are a Protestant Born Again, I take that as a fact. Very occasionally someone is so blatantly lying (and perhaps thinking about it more, Obama fits in this category -- has he been to Church in the last 3 years?). Is Nancy Pelosi a Catholic? I would say yes even though she has made a career out of supporting abortion, something the Catholic church clearly opposes. If she were excommunicated (and I really don't know why she hasn't been) then I would, of course, say she is not a Catholic, but I still would not say she isn't a Christian. (Luther, after all was excommunicated).
How can any man, woman, or child, know the Grace of God in their hearts and lives and still support the evils of Abortion and/or the Gay agenda?
I don't know the answer to that.
The answer is they cannot, no matter how they may lie about it.
I'm not as confident that I can see into peoples souls this way.
As for Catholics being able to be born again, sure they can, there is nothing keeping that from happening and I am sure there are many that are born again. The Bible does not differentiate between Protestant and Catholic, but it does layout the path to salvation, or being Born Again, and the process is open to all, no matter what the denomination or lack thereof. Well that's interesting. Is that commonly held belief of Evangelical Christians? I have to say that the terms seem to exclude Catholics in many of my readings, or at least Catholics interpret the term a little differently.
I read the Wikipedia page
on this. It's interesting.
And I repeat my earlier assertion, if a man or woman is truly born again ("Old things have passed away, all things have become new"), yes, they will have a much better understanding of the proper role, purpose, and scope of government.
Again, thanks for taking time to explain your views on this.
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