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To: philoginist
On a logical basis, if there was an infinite past to nature we would never reach ‘here and now’. Nature must have a beginning for time to progress – and an infinite past would never start the stopwatch. An infinite amount of universes, or the multiverse, does not solve the problem either - nature still needs a beginning because it exists within time. Furthermore, we know that natural processes cannot create natural processes (circulus in probando).

Beyond this distraction, you now state – “ I know that mind cannot come from anything without mind.” So do you believe in an ‘ultimate designer’ for life and the universe?

61 posted on 01/20/2015 12:02:26 PM PST by Heartlander (Prediction: Increasingly, logic will be seen as a covert form of theism. - Denyse OÂ’Leary)
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To: Heartlander

I’ll answer your question first:

“So do you believe in an ‘ultimate designer’ for life and the universe? “

No! It’s only my view and I’m only answering your question. I neither expect nor particularly desire for anyone to agree with it.

I’ll address a little bit of your argument just for the discussion’s sake.

“On a logical basis, if there was an infinite past to nature we would never reach ‘here and now.’”

What logic would that be? It would be interesting to see it put in the form of a syllogism. But accepting your premise, it would have to reach someplace, and since it has infinitely long to do it, that someplace can be anyplace, including here and now.

Your argument rests on the modern view of time as a thing. Time is actually only the relationship between motions, the other relationship being velocity. Time does not “progress,” or do anything else, anymore than velocity does.

I’m not sure what your point is by, “natural processes cannot create natural processes.” I think the meaning depends on what you mean by “create.” If you mean, for example, man as a natural being cannot create life (perhaps a living computer for example) I totally agree with you. If you mean one natural process cannot initiate another one, the birth of every animal disproves that.

Thank you for the comments.


92 posted on 01/20/2015 6:03:03 PM PST by philoginist
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