A good election night for marijuana legalization

The Volokh Conspiracy ^ | November 5, 2014 | Ilya Somin

[gdani]

>>>There's a legitimate debate to be had. But not when one side breathlessly exclaims that marijuana kills people.

No one said this. You just aren't keeping up with the debate. I never argued that marijuana was killing (through overdose, that is) "people", my argument has been consistently that it will kill societies, albeit slower than a stronger poison would.

Nice try!

This is what you said in Post #55, in response to me calling you out for equating marijuana with opium --

Post #55 -- It's the difference between strychnine and arsenic. One just kills you more slowly is all.

Must be a misunderstanding on my part, though.

[gdani]

Reliable or not, those are the figures being put out by the people who make it their job to come up with such figures.

Citation to 2%, please.

[TurboZamboni]

Where are all the anti smoking zealots?

Pretty soon it will be illegal to smoke unless it’s weed.

[DiogenesLamp]

So your solution is a totalitarian regime with the power to execute drug dealers?

You don't have another form of argument than "Straw man" do you? You see, that is a fallacy. You might just as well point and scream "Witch!"

If you are not going to be serious with me, I see no point in being serious with you.

No, I don't want a totalitarian regime, I want a sane government that executes drug dealers. I want a sane government that blows their foreign operations into itty bitty bits. I want an actual WAR on these poison manufactures, not all this pussyfooting around which keeps our usage rate at that 2% quoted earlier which simpletons like to cite as proof that nothing is being accomplished.

We have a small segment of our population using drugs because the American public would rather tolerate it than take the necessary steps to stop it.

[Eva]

It didn’t pass in Florida.

[Boogieman]

“And needs to. That isn’t even being reasonable to blame incarcerations on drugs. We have more murderers, rapists, robbers and thieves than do the other nations. Many of the “drug” incarcerations are plea deals to get them out of more serious crimes.”

Color me incredulous about this unsubstantiated claim. I don’t believe that DAs are pleading violent offenses down to simple drug possession charges. Usually, the opposite is true. They overcharge simple possession cases as “intent to distribute” cases, in order to bully people into pleading guilty on the possession charge.

[DiogenesLamp]

The poison’s already here, it’s always been here, and it can’t be eradicated,

Uh dude, yes it can. It's been done before. Check out Singapore.

The pragmatic, conservative position is that we are stuck with the poison, so we might as well make sure our laws minimize the damage rather than exacerbate it.

Do you know any people on drugs? Do you know people who have died from drugs? Do you know people who have gone to prison over drugs?

I have. Interfering with this industry is in fact the best effort to minimize the damage rather than exacerbate it.

[ConservingFreedom]

Some of them are, but here's one that isn't: If substance bans are to be based on the harms of the substances themselves, pot is by almost any measure less harmful than the legal drug alcohol - whose legality hasn't prevented us from thriving (although big government often has).

Legal Alcohol kills 85,000 people per year. Again, it's been accepted for several thousand years despite the misery and deaths it causes. We don't need another drug like alcohol.

It's not "like" alcohol - it's by almost any measure less harmful than alcohol. Many things were accepted for a long time, until they no longer were - supine resignation to the harms of alcohol on the basis of long history is not a principle but a flimsy rationalization.

And of course, every time you try to use alcohol to justify pot

I've never done that - that's your dimwitted misrepresentation. But keep trotting it out ... that, and your graphics and big fonts, are a clear sign to all of the flimsiness of your position.

[ConservingFreedom]

Till someone presents an argument that there are better figures, I will have no choice but to use what is available.

Will you also now apply that same principle to the figures showing declining opiate use in late-19th-century America?

[DiogenesLamp]

Wrong - past-month use of any illicit drug was 9.2% in 2012. Now if we subtract pot we arrive at 1.9% ... but pot is exactly the subject of this thread.

How about you and your deliberately deceitful @$$ stop beating around the bush? You are in fact, *IN FAVOR* of legalizing all drugs. Your own position proves my very point, that the argument for legalizing marijuana is in fact an argument for legalizing the whole thing.

You want to marry Alcohol and Pot as one, but you constantly argue that Marijuana and Other illicit drugs are two completely different things. Hypocrite much?

Just to let everyone on this thread know and understand, this guy "ConservingFreedom" is in fact in favor of legalizing any and all drugs.

[Boogieman]

“Uh dude, yes it can. It’s been done before. Check out Singapore.”

The U.S. isn’t Singapore. Many states don’t even have the death penalty anymore, and all states are forbidden by the Supreme Court from applying the death penalty to these type of offenses, as it has been ruled unconstitutional.

So, no, it can’t be eradicated by using the “Singapore model”, unless you get the Constitution amended.

[DiogenesLamp]

And I point you to Article V of the US Constitution, which specifies the process of amendment. This is the means by which the States modify the enumerated powers transferred to the national government.

The power to defend the nation is already granted to the Federal government. There need be no additional amendments to grant it this power.

[gdani]

...which keeps our usage rate at that 2% quoted earlier...

Citation to 2% stat, please.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Hey, you’re the one who brought up executing drug dealers. Not me. But you refuse to admit that the iron fist of government may not be the best way to deal with the problem.

[ConservingFreedom]

Your own position proves my very point, that the argument for legalizing marijuana is in fact an argument for legalizing the whole thing.

No, it proves that ONE argument for legalizing marijuana is in fact an argument for legalizing the whole thing. A logically independent argument for legalizing marijuana that is NOT an argument for legalizing the whole thing is, as I said: If substance bans are to be based on the harms of the substances themselves, pot is by almost any measure less harmful than the legal drug alcohol - whose legality hasn't prevented us from thriving (although big government often has).

You want to marry Alcohol and Pot as one,

Opposite - I note that the latter is by almost any measure less harmful than the former ... from which difference I conclude that if substance bans are to be based on the harms of the substances themselves, the current legal situation is out of whack.

but you constantly argue that Marijuana and Other illicit drugs are two completely different things.

I don't know where I said "completely" - they're quite different, just as marijuana and alcohol are different.

[shotgun]

So its your stated belief that the only job that people who smoke weed can get is as a pizza delivery guy or working at the car wash?

The world is full of professionals that are high functioning alcoholics or have other addictions. I’m not saying that is right or wrong but to you must live in an underground bunker cut off from the world if that is your perception of people who smoke weed.

Go to any of the pot shops in Washington state and check out the clientele. Sure some are obviously stoners from way back but please explain to me the other normal looking average people going in and tell me if you can guess what they do for a living.

[DiogenesLamp]

Several cases of marijuana induced psychosis getting people killed. Don't you know what the word "proximate" means?

While we are on the topic, you may or may not be shocked (I wasn't) regarding how many serial killers were big marijuana puffers. Psychotic murderers sure do love themselves some weed. Who knows if they were already sick, or if the pot made them that way? Here's a few.

Columbine? Yup. Big doobie smokers.

Batman theater massacre? Yup. Big pot smoker.

John Wayne Gacy? Loved the weed.

[tacticalogic]

The power to defend the nation is already granted to the Federal government. There need be no additional amendments to grant it this power.

I seen no historical evidence that this is within the original intent of the War Powers. Where did you find that?

[DiogenesLamp]

Aren’t those gangs only sneaking it over because it’s illegal to cultivate it here? Seems like a bit of circular reasoning on your part.

We were discussing the meaning of "intemperate." It is intemperate to insist on using a product which must be snuck over the borders in defiance of a long standing law. Especially a product that you don't need.

Likewise, cultivating a plant for the sole purpose of baking your brain is also intemperate.

in·tem·per·ate
inˈtemp(ə)rət/
adjective
adjective: intemperate

having or showing a lack of self-control; immoderate.
"intemperate outbursts concerning global conspiracies"
synonyms: immoderate, excessive, undue, inordinate,
extreme, unrestrained, uncontrolled; More
self-indulgent, overindulgent, extravagant, lavish,
prodigal, profligate; imprudent, reckless, wild;
dissolute, debauched, wanton, dissipated
"a man of intemperate taste may soon find himself with little left to taste"
antonyms: moderate
given to or characterized by excessive indulgence, especially in alcohol.
"an intemperate social occasion"

[Fledermaus]

Yeah, when I get stoned I can’t wait to consume a small child! /s