Posted on 10/16/2014 9:57:39 AM PDT by Doctor 2Brains
The other day, an English professor (retired) showed me a story in a magazine and corrected an interesting grammatical issue he found there. I at first thought he was crazy, but now I’m pretty sure he’s correct. After all, he’s the prof’. Here it is: When we speak of numbers, certain words always translate to mathematical formulas. “Less” means subtract. “There were ten, now there are three less.” 10-3. Duh. “Times” means multiply. “Of” means multiply. “How many cars were there?” “There were 10 of them.” 10 “OF” cars means 10 X 1.” Or… “I had half OF the six pack of sodas.” ½ OF means ½ X 6 =3. Here’s the problem: We often see it printed in news stories (yesterday on FR there was a nuclear fusion story that did it) sentences like this: “Americans drink 10 TIMES LESS home brewed beer than Africans.” Now, we all know what they are TRYING to say is, “US drinks 1/10th HB beer that As do.” But wording it the former way is wrong and cannot “get you there.” Let’s say the average African drinks 100 home brews a year, and the average American drinks 10. CORRECT: US drinks 1/10 of what Africans drink. 1/10 OF 100 = 10. Or 1/10th X 100 = 10. INCORRECT: Now try to convert “N drinks 10 times less than Y drinks.” N = 10 X 100. N = 1000? I think not. Now, of course we put the “less than” in the equation and still it does not work. N = 10 X -100. N = -1000. Again, I think not. “10 times less” will NEVER equal “One tenth of.”
Sorry, peeps: when I pasted it, I though I had paragraph breaks. Can the mods fix it?
After reading that I need a drink! (preferably of home brew)
I saw a show on home brewing once. Thught I might try it out. After watching, however, I decided I’d be more able to convert lead into gold in my basement. When Modelo can be had for 99 cents a pop at 7-11, why bother?
I interpret “X times less than Y” as division with X as the divisor.
Even though times is multiply and less is subtract when used individually, when combined it’s different.
As multiplication is continued addition, division is continued subtraction, so tacking on a “less” to “times” can make sense subjectively as division.
LESS: subtraction, x-y
MORE: addition, x+y
TIMES or TIMES MORE: multiplication, x*y
TIMES LESS: division, x/y
“x times less” irritates me. I’ve never converted it into formula but it always sounds confusing to me and does not create a clear image.
I agree. You can drink ten times more beer (I’ll try to confirm this), but cannot drink ten times less.
The prof is clearly right. But like “I could care less” instead of “I could not care less” it’s a lazy illogicality that we let slip by. In the case of “X times as many” used in a negative sense it definitively classifies the writer as a journalism school graduate.
Talk about cursed? I’m a technical writer and it’s difficult to read something without finding a mistake.
than can = that can
I’ll be the control group! I’ll drink 10 times more, but not less often.
I don’t make it, I just drink it.
That phrase “X times less” always stops me. It is absurd and means nothing real. Oen can infer that the writer or speaker means that that there is less of something but “ten times less?” What is that? Parsing might indicate that the result of something ten times less than 100 would be -900 which doesn’t make any sense at all in any situation where that ignorant phrase is used.
And your pernt would be? ;-)
That's very much like those of us who did proofreading for newspapers. Grammar and spelling errors just seem to jump off the page and smack us right between the eyes.
Incorrect. The correct answer is "There were ten. Now there are three fewer."
If I drink 9 times less, how much beer can I have?
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