Posted on 08/23/2014 11:08:25 AM PDT by OL Hickory
By this point, you have made up your own mind, as so many of us have. You are from one of two camps. One is the "hasn't Pete suffered enough? The other is the "Pete got exactly what he deserved"
I occupy the former.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
Pete’s portrait will be will be hung in the Hall of the Unforgiven. Tis a pity.
The Commish’s office stole stuff from the HOF and sold them.
But being a thief doesn’t stop them from punishing a guy who
gambled on the team he managed a quarter century ago?
Comparred to these phony’s Pete smells like a Rose.
Pardon me, but I'm not speaking for the Commissioner's Office. I'm speaking as a lifetime fan, a writer, researcher and historian of the game, and one-time pro scout.
Any Commissioner's transgressions don't diminish Pete's (and I was at Crosley Field for Pete's -- and Tommy Helms' -- big league debut). I loved him as a player but have scant respect for him as a human being.
Good points.
Rose played at a time before the million dollar contract...Long before...In fact, he was on the cover of SI
when he signed his contract making him the first 6 figure singles hitter.
When Rose made the admission in 2004, he was under the impression that baseball would make an accommodation with him that would allow him to rejoin baseball in some capacity. As we all know that never happened.
As far as affecting the integrity of the game, there has never been any evidence advanced that even remotely suggests that Rose ever attempted to affect the outcome of a game that he managed in an effort to enhance his betting position.
I loved him as a player but have scant respect for him as a human being.
As far as affecting the integrity of the game, there has never been any evidence advanced that even remotely suggests that Rose ever attempted to affect the outcome of a game that he managed in an effort to enhance his betting position.
Just one man’s opinion, but the baseball hall of fame is a farce. Joe Torre and Tony Larussa were just admitted to the HOF. Nary a word was said that both men managed teams with players who used PEDs extensively, ie, Mcwire,Canseco, A-Rod, Clemons etc. It is hard to believe to think that these guys didn’t know what was going on and did nothing to stop it.
So Rose never bet as a player just as a manager. Letting guys do steroids affects the game too and I agree these managers who are in the HOF affected the game and only the players got punished.
I laugh at this subject because in football they have taken the position that OJ should not be kicked out of the FHOF.
Put Pete in as a player and not as a manager that is the answer.
Now I'm judgmental and scolding, all because I think it's wise to adhere to the rules and to live by the agreement he signed? You're right - relativism isn't a great excuse.
As for the Pope part, I appreciate your confidence; however, I refuse to run and, if nominated, I will not serve. }8^D
That is an entirely different argument, but you are dead-on. For a time, he could hit in in the alleys and give you the occasional home run, but he was pretty limited the last 1/3 of his career. He was also a below-average fielder, though he was very versatile and made up for some of his shortcomings with his hustle.
All told, I think Pete squeezed more mileage out of his talent than anyone who ever played.
Everything you just wrote I have seen Pete say of himself.
His desire to win and his work ethic were I think an inspiration to all of us to do things we were not good at.
I am a retired EE and I was never great at math, but guys like Pete proved to me that trying ones best paid off in life.
Nevertheless all those records he had were done sometimes while injured, and he never made excuses on the field.
I hope he lives to see the day he is eventually honored for the long career and inspiration he was to us average people who like him tried our best.
If I was his family upon his death I would refuse him being inducted for IMHO it would be proof of the HOF being vindictive and if I were family it would be spitting in our fathers face to ask me as a family member to attend his induction, I would stay away in protest and let everyone know how pissed I was in how vindictive Baseball was.
Hope Pete lives a long life and makes Baseball look worse and worse every year.
I am a retired EE and I was never great at math, but guys like Pete proved to me that trying ones best paid off in life.
Nevertheless all those records he had were done sometimes while injured, and he never made excuses on the field.
I hope he lives to see the day he is eventually honored for the long career and inspiration he was to us average people who like him tried our best.
If I was his family upon his death I would refuse him being inducted for IMHO it would be proof of the HOF being vindictive and if I were family it would be spitting in our fathers face to ask me as a family member to attend his induction, I would stay away in protest and let everyone know how pissed I was in how vindictive Baseball was.
Hope Pete lives a long life and makes Baseball look worse and worse every year.
I agree with almost all of what you said - there's much to be admired about the way Pete approached and played the game. Some claim he was dirty, citing the Fosse collision in the 1970 All Star Game, but I think the accusation is bogus. Pete's explanation that he started to slide, but changed his mind and got caught in no-man's land once he saw the shinguards perfectly fits the replay. He played very hard, but he played fair.
I grew up in Cincinnati and watched him play countless times - you're exactly right that he played through injuries, gave it 100% regardless of the score or situation, filled whatever role was asked of him, and never made excuses (well maybe once, when Gene Garber ended his hitting streak).
I also agree that his family should refuse to attend if baseball ever decides to admit him to the Hall posthumously. I'm not sure it would prove baseball's vindictiveness, but it would be hypocritical. I think Rose merits appreciation and has received it (named one the 20th Century's 50 top players at the 98 All Star Game) but I don't want to ever see him in the HoF, period. His arrogance led him to believe he was bigger than the game and to break its cardinal rule, and he accepted a lifetime ban when faced with the evidence. It's really something of a tragedy as baseball was his life and he has always been one of its best ambassadors.
I read of occasional signs here and there that Pete is beginning to "get it". I hope he's headed in that direction and puts as much effort into being a better man as he put into being a better ballplayer. Anyway, it was nice chatting - I wish you well....
Likewise
Impeach Obama
What was Pete afraid of Dowd discovering?
In 2002, thirteen years after the lifetime ban, when Rose was still denying that he bet on baseball, John Dowd was interviewed by the New York Post.
Dowd - and this is the guy who knows the evidence better than anyone else - said he thought it was "probably right" that Rose not only bet on Reds games but that he bet against the Reds during the mid-to-late-1980s when Rose managed Cincinnati.
To quote ESPN about the Dowd interview in 2002:
Dowd said Thursday he was asked by the Post whether he came across any evidence that Rose gambled against his team. Dowd said he told the paper there was some, but it was inconclusive."I was never able to tie it down,'' Dowd said. "It was unreliable, and that's why I didn't include it in the report. I probably shouldn't have said it. I was not trying to start something here.''
Dowd also told the Post that Rose did not bet on the Reds whenever two pitchers, including Mario Soto, started, which "sent a message through the gambling community that the Reds can't win" on those days.
Dowd discontinued his investigation when Rose agreed to the lifetime ban. Repeat: the investigation that was turning up evidence that Rose bet against the Reds was terminated when Rose agreed to the lifetime ban.
Statement by then Commissioner of Baseball, A. Bartlett Giamatti, August 24, 1989
25 years, murders get out in less time.
Good behavior, he doesn’t want to work he wants commutation of sentence.
Baseball itself has done worse.
Vindictiveness pure and simple.
Its baseball that has lost my respect, and I am not the only one who has given up watching it. Just look at the ratings and attendance. Baseball may slip behind Soccer in popularity, its already behind Pro Football who puts on half time shows, showing that stodgy Baseball doesn’t understand marketing.
He AGREED to a lifetime ban in return for MLB ending its investigation into him. He was still lying about gambling on baseball. What did Rose get out of signing the lifetime ban? An end to the investigation.
What did Rose do after signing that lifetime suspension?
He lied about gambling for fifteen more years after signing.
I like Johnny Bench's comments "The question always is: 'Do you believe Pete should be in the Hall of Fame?' And I ask, 'Do you have kids?' [If Rose is in,] you can tell them that there are no more rules.' We've all had to abide by rules.""
Others have pointed out he thought when he made an admission it only applied to his working as a manager, coach, back office job.
NOT THE HALL OF FAME FOR HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS. I have not checked what other folks say.
I say baseball is not only looking stupid but vindictive.
This is the 25th anniversary of Pete being out of baseball.
Baseball just let in coaches who let drugs run rampant in their locker room, The commish office sold for profit HOF memorabilia, Owners with criminal records owned teams.
Baseball is pathetic.
In the Judeo Christian tradition 7 years is the length of time of which debts not repaid should be forgiven.
We are all sinners, look at our President, they were adulterers, rapists, liars.
I am a forgiving type, otherwise I would be divorced, and not have many friends.
Pete bet, I live in Vegas we don’t think that is the worst thing one can do. Nobody even his accusers cannot prove he bet against his team as a manager, and nobody says he bet as a player. So Pete should be in the hall of fame since his alleged betting happened after he stopped playing.
25 years is too long killers and traitors get shorter sentences, this is a game not life death, betraying ones country, raping. Pete didn’t beat someone up.
The people that made Pete sign that paper and gave him the ban, if we had dug into their lives and businesses we would have found they lied and cheated, we are all sinners.
25 years is enough proportionally too much for the crime, and quite frankly I could make a total case that baseball itself is rife with corruption, drugs, thieves, owners who don’t measure up to even Pete’s standard as a player.
Vote Pete in now.
Actually, it makes no difference whatsoever whether Rose bet against the Reds. Even if he only bet on them to win, he was still in violation of Rule 21(d):
(d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared ineligible for one year.Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.
Be advised that Rule 21 is posted in every major league clubhouse. And that the manager himself is charged with calling the attention of every one of his players to this posting at the beginning of Spring training, at the start off the regular season and periodically thereafter.
Accordingly, Pete himself had to read the second paragraph of 21(d) out loud at least three times annually.
Yet, he willfully and regularly broke that rule. Even if he never bet against his club, he was still subject to "being declared permanently ineligible".
ineligible for what. certainly they ain’t talking about HOF!!!
Pete is out for 25 years, he didn’t even want a job any more. I think all these years he wanted to be at old timers games, all star games, etc.
Pete held every job in baseball.
Baseball used to be something now its going to be behind soccer in popularity. You radicals care about the rules but baseball is selective in who they use these rules on.
This is the hall of shame, a lot of people like me see baseball as a bunch of fools, riding a man for 25 years and not calling it enough. Maybe they thought Rose would have died young like Mantle at 63, Rose is at least 10 years older and if he lives to 90 he will be out for 40 years, Baseball didn’t think this thru. I read posts all over the web and at least half think Rose isn’t in HOF and its wrong.
What, perchance, do the other half think?
Anyway, should we consult people all over the web to determine what our own standards, attitudes and principles should be?
Pete knew the rule and knew what the penalty was. He chose to break the rule; thus, it is his lot to pay the penalty. <
That's life...
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