Posted on 01/15/2014 4:26:24 PM PST by Kevmo
“most of us would be dead.”
what nonsense your mind is more DC than AC which explains why you live in the era before Tesla and Westinghouse electrified the country
oh Lordy your arguments include such wisdom as ‘they have applied for patents’ all of which have either been denied or withdrawn.
‘NASA even investigated this’ as if a Phase I grant is meaningful.
You don’t bother to read because you really don’t want the facts or the truth.
Answer me this since Black Light has been in business since about 1991 (in one form or another) why is it that NOTHING has come of this ‘amazing’ finding??? Why is it that NO ONE can reproduce any of the ‘scientific’ findings of Mills where is the proof that atomic states below the ground state exist??
Kevmo, I see you posted up a storm after everyone went to bed.
But, next time, try to avoid the bowlsheet of saying that the coal industry sells their crap in Joules per bucket or anything like that. Its a ridiculous argument. It appears that across the board, from 1W to 1MW, EEs go into shorthand mode when they say Watts but mean Watt-Hours. But if you think that this means Mouser is shouting SCAM by following this shorthand, youre simply way off.
Uh, the coal industry does work in BTUs per car load or metric ton, somewhere along those lines. I also happen to be into railroading :) Model railroading in reality, but I love reading some of the real business info about coal, since it is still one of the railroads major cargos. Remember, BTUs convert directly to Joules, they are both energy units.
A given coal from a given mine, with a given moisture content, will burn in a boiler and produce X amount of heat energy. Another physics thing you should learn about. The entire system can be expressed in Joules. Because, once again, Joules are energy.
Heres a power calculator I generated for the industry:
http://www.sipex.com/files/ApplicationNotes/ThermalCalculator.xls;
Link doesnt work, and I wouldnt trust it if you were the actual author. Sorry, thats the breaks, given what I have seen of you so far on this forum. Besides, if you really know your stuff, you would know that power dissipation is actually based on Joules, since power without a defined delivery time, makes absolutely no sense. It is just expressed in degF/Watt dissipated, to make thermal calculations somewhat easier for the engineer.
***Then it would appear that your pulse would last at MOST few seconds, not years. Thats all you needed to post. As you say, Oy! That pretty much explains his knowledge failure, right there in that one sentence.
Uh, no again. Never seen a coal train stop in a few seconds. Those locomotives use dynamic braking, and they dissipate heat through massive fan cooled power resistors for minutes on end. Even at the lumber mill level, servo trays running 100hp cutting motors across the planks easily stress resistors near continuously.
You see, in thermal engineering, more than the ohm and watt requirement are important. You just havent thought big enough, or oversimplified the problem in your head.
I dont think you got it any more than the other guy. He says that 1MW means 1MWH, that its a short-handed thing in, well, the coal industry. And all of us should know how the coal industry talks about such short hand because, well, coal used to be delivered by hand to each household or something like that.
Its you that isnt getting it. Power systems like generating plants or nuclear reactors are rated for continuous operation. To determine the energy developed by such a system, time MUST BE A FACTOR. Energy without time is instantaneous power, and a absolutely worthless number to have around for a power plant.
You seem to have gone the exact opposite in terms of your understanding. Are resistors measured in Watts? Or is it Joules? Well??? Where is the Joule setting on your multimeter? I thought for a brief instant you actually might know something, but ... sigh... it turns out youre just as ignorant as many of these other skeptopaths.
Again, power resistors have everything you need to calculate the limit of energy you can ask them to convert to heat and dissipate. This is Joules. Joules. Why dont you just go look this term up rather than beating around the proverbial bush? Anything related to thermal dissipation of power, deals with Joules. Yes, electrical resistance is in ohms, but the derating values are VERY VERY REAL. You arent going to stop a locomotive with the calculated max watt power resistor for a given resistance. You will melt it down. The resistor has to be able to take the full ENERGY load (which is in Joules) and convert to heat energy.
Q: How many bandwagons must a skeptopath jump onto before he feels superior to others who have more knowledge than him?
A: You tell me.
Ill bite. Zero. Because you have yet to prove that you have more knowledge than me. Though I would say initially I gave you the upperhand on LENR physics, but not anymore. You are just too ignorant on the whole of basic physics.
Maybe if you answered the questions of how resistors are measured, where the Joule setting is on a volt meter, and the power density hypothetical posted, we might think you could make a point. But instead, you seem to persist in your ignorance, as if that were some kind of virtue.
Once again, I really hope you get an education before working on power electronics.
Tell ya what. If you answer the power density question, we can get down to whatever units you want to discuss.
Oh, you want me to bow to the black box Rossi is pushing but cant demonstrate either commercially or convincingly to a small platoon of 7 scientists? No, wont be agreeing on that today. Dont care how many people you scam in intrade, etc. E-Cat is dead, and you know it, even if you cant admit it. He continues to burn through peoples hard earned money, probably on caviar and fine drink, while building these black boxes that he refuses to allow anyone inside of. Definition of con artist. Just like Blacklight. Patent it, let the secret go. I mean, people would find out anyway. Id give it 3 hours before a instructable about how to tear down your e-cat would appear on some howto website, if such a thing actually existed at all.
The reason he wont release is because the free investment money ride would be over. No more caviar and champagne.
1 J = 1W*s = 0.000277777778 watts * hour
That you dont know this is further proof of your lack of any professional knowledge of physics or engineering. I was hoping youd at least trap me on some nuance or such, but you have nothing. Zilch. Nada. Which means every god you pray too in free energy other than the God of Israel, I definitely mistrust. I guess we are lucky you are so unprepared to forward your thoughts. Probably has saved many from the scams you love forwarding along.
you sir have the patience of a saint.
me on the other hand, i lapsed into calling kevmo a kook (which he is) when it became apparent he is incapable of understanding the difference between a watt and joule
I dont have high expectations of a company that confuses basic units of physics either through ignorance or intentional deception
resistance is measured in ohms. resistors are rated in watts. if the watt rating of a resistor is exceeded (do not try this kevmo) it starts a fire.
this is basic, basic stuff.
you are harmless as long as you stick to cutting and pasting text and stay away from electricity for your own safety.
Kevmo posts are like a Star Trek script. lots of pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo, technical terms and units of measurement strung together in random sentences.
the light bulb over kevmos head is rated a 1 microjoule (yes microjoule because in kevmoland watts and joules are the same) per cubic meter of power density!
Someday Kevmo may demonstrate his grasp of basic electronics and make the following post:
“A joule if a unit of energy, as is a kilowatt hour, a BTU, etc.
A watt is a unit of power, 1 watt is 1 joule per second.
A volt if a unit of electrical potential. 1 coulomb of charge carriers at 1 volt electrical potential, have 1 joule of energy.
An ampere is a unit of electrical current, defined as 1 coulomb per second of charge carriers.
An ohm is a unit of electrical resistance.
Ohms law: V=I*R, P=V*I
the units work out as (joule/coulomb) * (coulomb/second) = joule/second = watt”
He is trying to help your understand basic physics, so you can discern fantasy from reality.
I don't think he's the only one that needs help. From the article:
BlackLight has developed a system engineering design of an electric generator that is closed except for the addition of H2O fuel and generates ten million watts of electricity, enough to power ten thousand homes.
If my calculations are correct, that comes to 1000 watts per home, which at 110 volts is going to get you a whopping 9 amps to run your whole house on.
ah yes you would think, but remember, any equation can be balanced by applying kevmos to one side or the other
because when I contribute you have NO idea what I am talking about.
***You actually contribute something? The difference between what you contribute and a piece of dog poo is that dog poo isn’t worth going out of our way to step on it.
Secondarily, I also dont discuss bigfoot, ufos, or perpetual motion machines
***Well, perhaps that’s a good sign. Bigfoot doesn’t have 14,000 replications. Perpetual motion machines don’t have 7 independent scientists testing them & producing a report that shows 10000X the energy density of gasoline (still not perpetual motion, but seems to attract similar vitriol).
notice the volts are the build up
***Yes. NOT Watts. Your entire premise is busted, so you try to repeat what I say as if it backs up your ridiculous statement.
Now go back to thum twaddling.
Ok. You hook up millions of Watts and I’ll hook up millions of Volts and zap your dog. We’ll see who survives.
your mind is more DC than AC
***Resistance is the same in both. Measuring resistance is the same, so, going back up thread to where I proposed resistance measurements and asked about the difference in energy density was telling. All your cohorts preferred to throw insults and back up your stupidity rather than address a simple hypothetical about measuring resistance. Maybe my mind is more DC than AC, but the skeptopathic mind is more shiite than shinola.
oh Lordy your arguments include such wisdom
***Oh, then I guess the answer to the question of “where did I say it was proof” is NOWHERE, but you won’t admit it, you just want to move on to something else.
they have applied for patents
all of which have either been denied or withdrawn.
***Suppression of LENR patents is well known in this area of inquiry.
I see this thread is over 200 posts, which is great to see this much interest but I think the arguments are correct in that an instantaneous WATTS reading is meaningless since it has to be done over time. But to say that BLP is equivalent to using surplus equipment in grandma's basement is wrong. I can't find the pics of their lab but they have some awesome equipment, as 60 million goes a long ways. I forget who used to own BLP's building but I think it was pratt and whitney and they left behind a lot of state of the art equipment. Below is what the cell looks like and you can see their lab in some of the pics but their website won't let me grab the photos. Having a state of the art lab doesn't mean they have anything but they are well funded and a lot of the criticism of Rossi is that his lab looks like someone's garage and it looks like his equipment was bought from Ebay. I have better equipment than Rossi does, at home. Again, state of the art equipment or not, it is the results that count but I think better equipment allows for better, more accurate experiments and leaves them with no excuse on why they don't measure the power correctly.
If you look at the design of this cell, it looks like a fuel cell running backwards or maybe a continuously flowing electrolysis cell but the distance between the electrodes looks small so when they hit it with 12000 amps at 80 some volts, you would think it would overwhelm the insulators and grenade the cell. Anyone ever put a neon lamp across 120 volts without the 33k resister? It explodes in a flash of light, kind of cool but it scared the crap out of me when I was little. I could see the same thing happening here.
What I want to know is what should we look for on this January 28th demo? From the press release it says it's a low voltage high current input and it is D/C as anyone who has made an electrolysis cell knows, not only does it take D/C, it also has to have the correct polarity as the generated oxygen comes from the anode and hydrogen comes from the cathode. I don't see how they create a continuous plasma flow unless there is circulation of the water and how do they use the plasma? It seems to me that creating plasma in a water bath will flash the water to steam instead of into plasma or even hydrogen and oxygen with that much instantaneous current.
I would assume that they have to have a way for the water to flow into the cell and another way to have the plasma go into the magnetohydrodynamic converter but don't they need a vessel that can handle plasma? It seems like once the plasma is generated, they would have the same problem the hot fusion folks do and that is safely containing the plasma without destroying the container or electric generator or having the cooler walls quenching the creation of plasma. From the diagram posted above, they show the insides of the cell but not its container which, due to the reasons above, would seem to be an important part of the cell's design. They also say that the cell, once kicked off, has a self propagating electro-chemical reaction. I don't know if this means they only have to kick start the process and then it runs by itself which should be easy enough to test if true. If you look at the steps from the link above, it says:
1) Assume CIHT is similar to an alkaline fuel cell, except that an electric current is passed through it and an inert atmosphere with trace H2O vapor surrounds the cathode, anode, and electrolyte.
2)Current is introduced, which produces hydrogen and oxygen from the electrolysis of the supplied trace H2O. Then, the cell is discharged for a much longer time than it was charged at essentially the same voltage maintained by the energy released from the hydrino reaction.
3) Nascent H2O is formed at the anode during discharge by oxidation of OH- and reaction with H. Hydrinos are then formed at the anode during cell discharge as a result of the atomic hydrogen reacting with the nascent water that serves as the catalyst to form the hydrinos.
4) When the hydrinos form, energy is given off that causes spontaneous electrochemical reactions to occur at both electrodes that result in a self-propagating electrochemical cycle wherein H2O is converted to hydrinos, electricity, and oxygen. Specifically, oxidation-reduction reactions of H2O involving oxygen and oxygen ion intermediates such as hydroxide, oxides, peroxides, and superoxides are involved in the spontaneous electrolysis of water powered by hydrino formation that in turn result in the formation of catalyst and hydrinos. The equivalent of Steps 1 and 2 occur continuously, except that no electricity has been applied during this process. Power is produced with a large net gain in electricity (e.g. 10X) over that to initiate the spontaneous electricity-producing process.
What exactly is happening? It appears that oxygen, hydrogen, peroxide, hydrinos and super-oxides are formed that are then converted to hydrinos and catalyst. If the catalyst is formed in the first reaction, how can it be a catalyst although it sounds like once the cell is kicked off and the hydrinos are formed with the catalyst, then those are fed back into the reaction so it goes into self-sustain mode? Also, the formation of the hydrinos is apparently where the energy comes from, so what do they do with the hydrinos? Are they done with them after they're formed? It seems that this cell's real product is hydrogen, which is not a bad thing. If there was a way to break water up into its components that doesn't take more power than can be generated by burning the hydrogen, they could then use the hydrogen to power anything that can run on hydrogen and since it seems the reaction is self sustaining, the only input needed would be water but they say the output is the plasma which they use to generate power??? This kind of reminds me of the South Park underwear gnomes.
BLP kind of leaves step two out although I could see them protecting their unique process until they have a patent but that thinking would seem to me to be a problem with production units in that once these things are out in the wild, it should be easy enough to copy the technology if it isn't protected by patent. I don't know what the purpose of the hydrinos is, it sounds like they are created in the cell but what do they do and why are they important? In fact, what exactly is causing a regular looking electrolysis cell to produce hydrinos? What is their secret sauce and where is it; is it a unique metal on the electrodes, is it something in the water? Where is it on the cell diagram?
So, how are they generating power or heat? It says they hit the water fed vessel with 12,000 amps and it turns the water into plasma, then what? The press release says magnetohydrodynamic converter but I only know what that is because Wiki (I know) has a write up and a diagram and they say that the maximum efficiency so far is 30% which is no big deal if the input plasma is almost free :
What do they do with the plasma after it goes through the MHD? Does it turn back into water?
On one hand I can see them keeping the exact design of their cell secret since they don't have a patent but they do need to let independent people create a test that tells everyone what they are testing for, what results they are looking for and it has to be done over a decent time like a week. If the cell they are using in the January 28th demo is a pre-production cell, then hopefully, they will run it for a long time and have the proper equipment to measure the input power, the output power of the MHD generator and also, what do they do with the leftover reactants?
A few years ago, they used to say that not only were they creating hydrinos, but that they were also creating a unique mineral in the process that has some special qualities. What happened to them?
I can't wait to see January 28th roll around, I would very much like this to be real even though my hopes mean nothing when it comes down to science, I just hope Mill's dream of it being real didn't cause him and his researches to fall for confirmation bias in interpreting their results.
Unfortunately, I don't think that if this is successful that it proves or disproves LENR as the BLP process doesn't sound like LENR. I would like to see some serious funding to either prove or disprove the LENR/LANR effect and to come up with a working theory. The biggest problem is researchers think that if it is real, it will cost them funding on hot fusion or any other researcher's pet projects. There are too many instances of anomalous heat or energy to discount this area of research and it would nice to move LENR to the area of a real technology that we don't yet know the physics of. We know the physics of hot fusion, we just don't have reactors that create more energy than put in. It's the opposite with LENR, we have the experiments but we don't know the theory, yet.
NASA even investigated this as if a Phase I grant is meaningful.
***NASA isn’t investigating bigfoot, and neither are you. It is meaningful enough.
LENR Aircraft gets NASA research grant
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3033691/posts
Thu 20 Jun 2013 12:51:25 PM PDT · by Kevmo · 27 replies
Cold Fusion Now ^ | Thursday, June 20, 2013 | By Gregory Goble|
You dont bother to read because you really dont want the facts or the truth.
***Now you’re just parroting. It’s the skeptopaths who, over and over, refuse to examine the evidence.
Answer me this
since Black Light has been in business since about 1991 (in one form or another) why is it that NOTHING has come of this amazing finding???
***Because the effect is so difficult to generate, and to control.
Why is it that NO ONE can reproduce any of the scientific findings of Mills
***Well, now. That’s a lot different than “nothing coming of this”, isn’t it? Mills has a THEORY that hasn’t yet been validated. And he has LENR experiments that haven’t made it out of the lab yet. So, how is he going to prove his theory? By demo’ing his box. If he has nothing, it will go nowhere.
where is the proof that atomic states below the ground state exist??
***Where is the proof of theory behind high temperature superconductivity? It’s been around about the same amount of time, and $billions have been thrown at it, so we should have far, far more proof available. Where is it?
Uh, the coal industry does work in BTUs per car load or metric ton
***And so every EE with a DVM is supposed to be able to translate BTUs/bucket into Watts on the fly? That’s your evidence that I don’t know about Power Generation? What a crock of shit.
Link doesnt work,
***It’s getting old now that Exar updated their website.
and I wouldnt trust it if you were the actual author.
***And yet, I’m a published author in this field. So maybe all your huffin’ and puffin’ about coal is as meaningless as it sounds.
Sorry, thats the breaks, given what I have seen of you so far on this forum.
***Given what I’ve seen about you, I wouldn’t trust you because you’re as slimy as an eel.
Besides, if you really know your stuff, you would know that power dissipation is actually based on Joules,
***Since I do know my stuff, if I had published that the resistor was dissipating too much heat in Joules, my boss would have changed it to the industry standard of Watts. If you knew YOUR stuff, you’d know that.
since power without a defined delivery time, makes absolutely no sense.
***Perhaps you’ll get around to showing why DVMs have Watts on them as a measurement, but not Joules. But you won’t. Because you don’t know what you are talking about.
It is just expressed in degF/Watt dissipated, to make thermal calculations somewhat easier for the engineer.
***So then what is your problem? If someone says the sun rises in the morning, do you get all huffy and puffy about them not knowing the solar cycle? Basically, you just proved to the forum that you’re an incredible asshole.
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