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To: justlurking

Jazz and Blues are homegrown. The whole world knows that beyond reasonable doubt. There are desperate efforts to have them African rooted, but that’s like saying every human is of African descent because humans began there long ago.

I defy you to play me a song predating 1920, from Africa, that even slightly reminds anyone of the 1920-forward American Jazz and Blues. For bonus points, prove it then arrived here and was an influence.
Native drums and rhythm don’t count. Its so general that it is not an ancestor.


64 posted on 09/18/2013 9:37:59 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: DesertRhino; SeekAndFind; DwFry; dead
Jazz and Blues are homegrown. The whole world knows that beyond reasonable doubt.

Aha, just like global warming is settled science.

Sorry, but your proclamation may convince you, but it doesn't convince me. And, I really don't understand why you and several others on this thread are so sensitive about it. New music, arts, and even technology have always derived from their predecessors.

This country has always welcoming to other cultures that want to join us. Sharing culture doesn't mean we don't share our values. SeekAndFind said it much better in his post #10.

I originally thought the originator of this thread did so to bring out the phobics and put them on display. And now, it looks like he/she succeeded.

78 posted on 09/18/2013 9:51:55 AM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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To: DesertRhino
Native drums and rhythm don’t count. Its so general that it is not an ancestor.

Without rhythm, there is no music. It's just random noise. But, I'll quote Louis Armstrong:

Talking of swing, Louis Armstrong, one of the most famous musicians in jazz, said to Bing Crosby on the latter's radio show, "Ah, swing, well, we used to call it syncopation, then they called it ragtime, then blues, then jazz. Now, it's swing. White folks - yo'all sho is a mess!"

The cite is from Father of the Blues by William Christopher Handy, 1941 MacMillan (page 292). And if you look up syncopation, you'll find it describes a type of rhythm.

As for the origin of the blues, you don't have to take my word for it:

Africa and the Blues

Tracing which musical traits came from Africa and which mutations and mergers occurred in the Americas, Gerhard Kubk, a cultural anthropologist and ethnomusicologist, shows that the African American tradition we call the blues is truly a musical phenomena belonging to the African cultural world.

And from Early Jazz: Its Roots and Musical Development:

This new music developed from a multi-colored variety of musical traditions brought to the new world in part from Africa, in part from Europe. It seems in retrospect almost inevitable that America, the great ethnic melting pot, would procreate a music compounded of African rhythmic, formal, sonoric, and expressive elements and European rhythmic and harmonic practices.

If you don't accept that, do you dispute that jazz and blues originated in the African American slave culture? Where do you think they learned the predecessor components (rhythm and melody)? They didn't just spring up out of thin air.

132 posted on 09/18/2013 11:49:28 AM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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